Production Dates and Numbers for Wide White Wall Tires

[jszeman1]

Can anyone tell me what is the latest production number car that shipped from the factory with the wide white wall tires?

[114015]

Hello John,

Very interesting question !
A continuation of our discussion  last night.... 

Actually, I "dunno";
currently there are more hints to me that our cars had the narrow white wall tires  right from the beginning, not later.

See here a brochure's pic from the first sales brochure (August 1963);
also the Geneva car (VIN 000001) had narrow white walls - including option code 64/1 on the data card.

But there are also other deviations (wide white walls), e.g. the IAA_1963 pic (Internationale Automobil-Ausstellung, Frankfurt, Autumn 1963);
but mostly these "factory-original" wide-white wall tire cars appear to me mostly to be more pre-series/prototype cars ...

I "dunno"....;
do others here have more insight into this? Hans, Jon, Garry??


Achim
(still without WW tires...; have to solve that problem)

[waltklatt]

Yes, an interesting question.
Believe it was the W123/W116 models that had the last whitewalls from the factory.  The subsequent models were changed to lower profile tires with alloys and no hubcaps.  Now hubcaps are back in again on a few.
It's a matter of staying current with the style or customising fads.
If that is the answer you are looking for John.
Walter

[Jowe]

Similar question for me since my car was factory delivered in April -64 with white wall tyres (option 641). But were they wide or narrow? Today, I have narrow "fake" white walls. Actually, I did't recognise that when I bought it. Pic attached. The wide ones really put some early 60's character on the car. Maybe I should buy such fakes as well, to be able to exchange depending on mood!? 

[Jonny B]

From the design stages, the car was shown with the wide white walls (and was at that point listed as a 220 SL). I would speculate, that is a carryover from the wide white walls offered on the 190 SL. I looked through Engelen's book for in-period photos to see what that might show. There is reprint of a car test from Auto Motor and Sport that shows the car with the wide white wall tires. Other photos have the smaller white walls.

Perhaps as Achim types, the early cars, even those that went for magazine tests were prototypes or pre-production models with the wide white tires.

And as Walt types, more of a current style kind of thing.

[66andBlue]

The first Pagoda delivered to the USA had narrow stripes. See my article in PW14.

[Garry]

When I was finishing off my restoration, I tried to find as many photos of 230SL as possible with the white walls on them.  There are probably three types of WW.  The first is 2-2 1/2” and the white starts from the rim as in my first shots.  An alternate WW appears to be 1 1/2’ wide and whilst the outer white part is at the same distance from the rim, the inner area shows a small part of the natural tyre black as in Alfred's photo and the third is the 1” WW that gives an ever bigger black area between the rim and the start of the WW.

 I have used Coker tyres that I got through a local US importer and I whilst I could not establish whether there was a “right” or “wrong” type  I think it comes down to personal preference as all three appear to have been used on some of the early Pagodas from the factory that were used as Demo”s for the Motor writers.

[66andBlue]

Here is a Daimler press release photo showing the narrow (~ 0.75") stripes that Garry mentioned in more detail. Also note the raised "curbing rib" on the original tire.

[neelyrc]

Here are pictures from a few weeks ago of my unused Firestone Phoenix spare with "curbing rib" which was delivered with my car at the factory in 1969. I think it is the same as the tire in the picture from the Daimler press release posted by Alfred.  At least two members of this forum have earlier cars than mine that were purchased new (49er and mbpaul).  From previous posts I see that 49er's present pagoda has option code 641. He also had owned an earlier pagoda which may or may not have had white wall tires.   Perhaps 49er could comment on white wall width on his cars when new. Also, perhaps mbpaul could comment on whether or not his 230SL was delivered new with white walls and if so of what width. There may be other original owners on the forum with earlier cars that can shed more light on this question. 

[Garry]

It is not just the width of the white way but also the placement of the white wall either against the rim or more centered on the tyre. It also varies on the tyre brand as well where they placed the white and a rib so not so simple.

I believe they varied several times from earlier 230Sl’s through the 250SL's to the later 280SL’s however information on the variations does not appear to be documented anywhere and only the photos give a picture on what was available so you could have the WW option code but could end up with one of several different tyre brands, widths and/or positioning of the WW on the tyre that were put on the car. Todays WW appear to be the 1” and more centered on the tyre than the originals.

[mbpaul]

My car was delivered with the Firestone Phoenix 185X14 whitewalls with the "curbing rib".  I do not have any of the original tires but I remember they were like the ones shown in the pictures by neelyrc.  I know the spare delivered with the car never went on the ground but I do not know what happened to it.  I cannot find any old pictures of the car that really show the tires in enough detail to really say what they were.  My records show I replaced the Firestone Phoenix tires at 18,025 miles with Dunlop SP tires and the Dunlops were terrible tires.

[Paul99]

Interesting about white walls.  In the UK "we" dont always favour white walls on older cars and definatly zero on newer cars, seen more as a USA type style, some do have them and I think the car looks nicer with them (only the thin bands) but a few older UK cars did have them but generally not.

Looks like even the euro cars had white walls?  Would be interested to know of UK cars with white walls from the factory.  I would guess they would be very rare.