Author Topic: Converting to electric anyone?  (Read 23083 times)

Cees Klumper

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Converting to electric anyone?
« on: January 29, 2017, 20:08:40 »
I can't recall whether anyone already did this, but it occurs to me that, in the not too distant future, many of our cars will be converted to electric powertrains. Is it time for the Group to start thinking about this, or is it still too early? I know there are companies that do this for a living already, but does anyone know of an electrified Pagoda? What would be the cost if I would want to do this now?
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
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Garry

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 20:49:12 »
Cees,

There was one that came onto eBay several times a few years ago and commented on here.

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=17384.msg120163#msg120163
and here

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=16516.msg114345#msg114345

Even you commented  ;D
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
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1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 21:00:41 »
Tim Kidder converted a 190SL over to electric and I think he received little to no interest on it. My basic reaction is ............. YUCK!!!!
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
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Cees Klumper

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 21:48:36 »
So my memory is not the greatest, thanks For digging that up Garry.

Yuck or not Dan, there will come a time.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 01:17:51 »
Hi Cees,

There are several sites that provide the components as well as guidance to do the work,

Here is one (you may have seen it) ----> http://www.canev.com/kits.php

I will stick with my engine as long as they let me :)

Dieter
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neelyrc

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 02:59:01 »
I will stick with my engine as long as they let me :)
Dieter
I'm with you Dieter.........but, I might convert to wood! We have a lot of trees in Alabama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN5GEBbaf7Y

I have had a ride with Wayne in one of his earlier conversions. Quite an experience!!!

 

Ralph

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Benz Dr.

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 04:56:16 »
So my memory is not the greatest, thanks For digging that up Garry.

Yuck or not Dan, there will come a time.

Full electric cars are not much good except in cities and there are a lot of remote rural areas in NA. None of this electric stuff will work for transport trucks, heavy construction equipment, or farm use. A lot of these applications are now using a blue tec type system but it's not on everything yet.  Oil will be powering things for a long time.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
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1967 250SL
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hauser

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 06:17:49 »

hkollan

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 08:10:06 »
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
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mdsalemi

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 15:32:31 »
Well, that Caterpillar D7E is using just what American locomotives have been using since steam departed...diesel electric.

Having had two PEV hybrids for two years each, and living in a place that experiences all four seasons in their glory (hot humid summers and cold snowy winters) I can tell you I'm more enamored with a hybrid that carries it's own power generation (such as the Chevy Volt) than I am with a pure electric Chevy Bolt--or any other brand equivalents.

There's a huge elephant in the room that nobody likes to bring up and less to talk about: electric cars like it like we do, humans that is. Temperate between 68-72 degrees. Once you get into any situation that requires climate control such as the heat of summer or the cold of winter, or even mundane things like defrosting, your "mileage" goes to *&^% in a handbag. My totally computer controlled PEV would start out fresh with an 18 mile range, but if the a/c or heat were required, I could see that drop to 10 in about half a mile. The massive battery pack (cost: $7,000.00) require heaters in the winter too, so it isn't just keeping the occupants or driver warm. Then there is that darn charging factor: using a Level II 220V charger it still took over 2 hours to charge up our cars. While some places offered "free" charge stations (nothing is free; someone was paying for it) more than likely the place, such as our public library, offered charging for $2.00 per charge. Considering our cars got 38+ MPG on pure gasoline, using the library to charge was not a cost effective idea.

No question there's an electric revolution going on but there still a lot of engineering work to be done.  One of the big "reveals" at the North American International Auto Show was the Chevrolet Bolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt which is claiming a range of 238 miles. I would be quite curious to see how that range changes in the heat of summer and the cold of winter. Nobody's talking about that...
Michael Salemi
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Jowe

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 17:51:51 »
Johan
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 18:17:17 »
I'm familiar with diesel electric systems. Very early combines had electric rather than hydraulic header lift and they all eventually caught on fire. I'm sure modern systems would be much better, and new combines employ a huge amount of electronics, but I don't see were you could improve upon those systems currently in use. It's simply a non starter. ( pun intended )

One of the things that irritates me is how electric car buyers get about a $7,500.00 tax credit from the Ontario Government. Since these cars cost a lot more than a comparable gas unit, only wealthy people tend to buy them. This tax credit has a way of helping people who probably don't need it, which in the end puts a question mark on all sorts of green energy programs.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Cees Klumper

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 21:32:00 »
Check this conversion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f24zbY8AkTI

It's exactly watching this episode of Wheeler Dealers that prompted my question Johan ...
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

Raymond

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 23:08:37 »
Cees, The Youtube video is blocked from the US by Discovery's copyright.

I have a friend with a Tesla S who just drove to Daytona and Back on one charge.  (about 180 miles)  Of course he wasn't in "Ludicrous Mode" where it does 0-60 in 2.9 seconds.

About two years ago, for a project I was writing, I got information from the US Department of Energy showing that the US consumes around 4 million gallons of  petrofuels each second.  Given that, it would take a LOT of trees from Alabama.  Another elephant in Michael's room is how to recycle all of those batteries when they are spent. 

Do you think it's because of the temporary drop in oil prices that we don't focus on hydrogen fuel cells?  They can generate hydrogen as you go so you don't have to have an explosive tank behind your bumper.  The risks would not be any higher than a gasoline explosion.  And the exhaust is phenomenally clean.  Toyota had a working prototype a few years ago and then Fracking came online and oil dropped to $35 per barrel.  But prices are climbing again.
Ray
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mdsalemi

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 20:11:18 »
Another elephant in Michael's room is how to recycle all of those batteries when they are spent. 

I believe that most of the batteries contain metals and other products that can be recycled and/or repurposed, and of course on a large scale, this would happen.

I have a very old book, (c)1935 titled "The Triumph of an Idea: The Story of Henry Ford". In it, it describes in great detail old Henry's material sourcing, his reasons for vertical integration (before the term was invented) of maintaining control over quality and delivery. The author also describes the Ford corporate recycling center (though the term wasn't yet invented either) where spent cars of yesteryear were disassembed and most of the materials were reused in some fashion. As I re-read parts of this book, I wonder if we've learned anything in the ensuing 82 years since publication, since it's all been done before.

As for fuel cells, Raymond, what happened is this: they need hydrogen to generate electricity, they don't generate hydrogen "as you go". But the challenge was, is, and continues to be that hydrogen is rarely found in nature; it's usually bound to something like oxygen: H2O, water for example. [Nearly all the hydrogen currently manufactured in the USA comes from fossil fuels.] And that bond is tough to break, and takes energy to do so. Now, if there were a great way to generate hydrogen by electrolysis of water that didn't consume more energy than it generated, we'd be set. That's the holy grail.

Some years ago, there was some research done on this, and a method to do was was developed. It hasn't gone anywhere, however. The research was from Professor Jerry Woodall http://engineering.ucdavis.edu/biographies/jerry-woodall/ formerly of Purdue, now at UC Davis. The process is called gallium aluminum hydrolysis. http://www.purdue.edu/uns/x/2007a/070515WoodallHydrogen.html

If only...
Michael Salemi
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pj

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2017, 06:13:22 »
Hi Michael
this is a good idea because it avoids distributing the hydrogen gas, as you noted. I had not heard of this process before.

I don't think there's that much gallium in our resource stream, so this might be an obstacle to using this method widely.

Also, of course it's critical to note that this process doesn't actually generate energy from a free source. The article mentions that it takes a lot of energy to extract aluminum, either from plentiful minerals or from the aluminum oxide that is produced by this process. The energy required represents an expense that has to be included in the price of this system. But it's still a good idea because the aluminum can be extracted at convenient times and places, where surplus electricity is available. I think it's a fairly complex and even dangerous process to extract aluminum, so it might not be feasible to build something into a car that would recycle the aluminum oxide. You'd probably have to do that at centralized facilities, and the aluminum oxide produced in the cars would have to be returned there.

The article also notes that there's a considerable advantage in efficiency if the hydrogen is used in a fuel cell, instead of an internal combustion engine.
Peter J
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mdsalemi

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JamesL

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2017, 09:45:08 »
These guys have done a Beetle, a RangeRover and are doing a 911
https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/electricclassiccars/

Beetle
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franjo_66

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 22:59:30 »
If Mercedes were to offer the same type of factory electric conversion as per the Jaguar link below then I would definitely be ready to adapt my car to the electric future.

http://media.jaguar.com/news/2017/09/jaguar-e-type-zero-most-beautiful-electric-car-world?q=&start=0&brand=jaguar

I contacted the product team at Mercedes & the Classic Centre but the response was not encouraging.
Personally I think this would be a great commercial opportunity for Mercedes with the added benefit of ensuring that our cars and other classic series have a viable future.

Surely it's a no-brainer??
Franjo

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Garry

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2017, 02:01:29 »
What about the exhaust note though.  A Jag or Merc without the burble would be just plain wrong ;D ;D ;D
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
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franjo_66

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2017, 02:06:03 »
That is part of the dilemma Garry.......

I love the burble of our engines. but in years to come I can see that the trend of banning/limiting usage of petrol/diesel cars will become a reality.

Then I'd be willing to sacrifice the exhaust note as a trade off to still keeping our cars relevant and usable !
Franjo

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Cees Klumper

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2017, 07:47:51 »
Interesting that Jaguar are now doing this. The range is also not bad, 170 miles on a charge, with the electric motor and battery pack weighing less than the original engine and transmission. As battery technology improves, so will the range and charging times. Exhaust burble is something that modern cars already have 'engineered in' although I could get used to quieter driving rather quickly, I think.

I'm not surprised Mercedes is not going the same way as Jaguar, at least not for a while. Also, they would probably be a lot more expensive to have a conversion done than by specialized shops. But I predit that, 10 years from now, this forum will have a separate section devoted to electric conversions.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

smackYYZ

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2017, 15:56:04 »
I've been following this guy up in Ottawa.

He's taken:
 - Factory Five Racing 818 kit car.
 - Tesla Model P85 motor
 - 2 Chevy Volt batteries

And made a crazy fast roadster. It weighs in around 2500 lbs and now makes 530 HP ( first version was 420 HP )

Dyno video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OITr1kTutQ

Quarter mile run : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyjxXtuXeRw

He's now turned it into a new business http://www.ev-controls.com/

I'm thinking of building one of these for auto cross, but I'd never electrify my Pagoda

doitwright

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Re: Converting to electric anyone?
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2017, 16:07:59 »
Building cars that run on electricity or any alternative energy source is just the tip of the iceberg. There is no question that the transportation industry will gradually evolve into something completely different than what we see today. It is already happening with Elon Musks Boring Company tunnel project already underway in California and he has a good chance to start one in Chicago. Autonomous vehicles and the fact that younger generations would rather Uber than own a car will gradually make this transition more acceptable and desirable. It makes me wonder if people will even have an interest in classic cars in the future.

This video will give you an idea of where things are heading. Yes there are cars in the video, but also pods with people who just want to go somewhere and not pay attention to pedestrians and other vehicles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI
Frank Koronkiewicz
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