Hubcap restoration Guidance

[mdsalemi]

Does anyone have any facts on when, or if, stainless steel one piece wheel covers were ever used on Pagoda's???

My car, late January 1969 build, also had steel wheel covers, chrome plated. I do know that replacements I bought, OEM from MB (complete with holographic authenticity sticker on the back) were stainless steel. I've pointed this out before, but there is a huge difference between the reproduction stainless steel wheel covers, and OEM. I believe any reproductions are being sold under the radar, since they have the three point star and would violate Mercedes-Benz trademark. However, there were plenty made and sold before they put a stop to official sales of these. The OEM's are a much higher grade of stainless, and thicker gauge. They are polished like jewelry. There's a distinct color difference too--the reproductions are "cooler" and the OEM's are "warmer". What exactly the alloy difference is, I don't know. But in terms of desirability, once you see the OEM's compared to the repros, the OEMs should win your heart each time. In the attached photo, the OEM is on the left, the repro on the right. I tried polishing the repro using a buffing wheel and many grades of metal polish, and couldn't come close to the finish of the OEM. At the time I needed wheel covers, the repros were selling for $79 each and the OEMs for $129.00. I opted for all OEMs.

Everyone's tolerance for cost, and for authenticity is different. I can tell you with certainty, that unless you are starting with a chrome plated steel cover that isn't too far gone, it will be quite costly to have wheel covers chrome plated.

When I wash my car these days, I generally remove the wheel covers and hand wash in a sink and dry them--no abrasives, no brushes. I don't think many people did that in the 60s and thus much of the backside rusted severely.


As for stainless steel, I'd like to think that Mercedes-Benz, when specifying the wheel covers, probably put some thought into appearance and longevity. The repros were probably done to a price point. Since there are three basic forms of stainless steel (Martensitic, Austenitic and Ferritic) and literally dozens of grades within each form--this is best left to a metallurgist to figure out!

[BaronYoungman]

I can provide no written proof , but many people including a 45+ years Mercedes master mechanic said that those stainless steel were introduced in the mid 70's so never stock on pagoda, people just got them when hubcaps came off (tires were harder and Chicago potholes deeper back in the day).
Bob

[Iconic]

Thank you Bob !!
That is exactly what I have thought.
Stainless steel hubcaps were never original factory equipment on the Pagodas.
Can anyone dispute that comment with facts (or anecdotes)?

My car, late January 1969 build, also had steel wheel covers, chrome plated. I do know that replacements I bought, OEM from MB (complete with holographic authenticity sticker on the back) were stainless steel.

Michael,
Of course when you are referring to OEM in your discussion of the quality of the Stainless Steel used in Mercedes Benz vs. Reproduction wheel covers you are referring to what was available from MB when you purchased the wheel covers, long after production of the Pagoda had ended.
You are not implying that Stainless Steel was ever used from the factory on Pagodas, correct?
Take care,
Mark

[mbzse]

He he, I like the way that we, step by step  by means of our Forum, are able to improve on the "W113 Pagoda BoK" (Body of Knowledge) 

[neelyrc]

But, mercakungen's car is a '70, and a later vin than.......

Excuse my ignorance.  How does 9/69 translate into a '70??

Your questions remain unanswered Iconic!!

[Jonny B]

I caught up on the whole string, and checked on the 000045 VIN wheel change. This is listed in the current edition of Pagoda Notes (the listing of the changes for 1968 280 SL) and it is the switch from the "dog dish" style with chrome trim ring to the single piece cover.

[Iconic]

Excuse my ignorance.  How does 9/69 translate into a '70??

Your questions remain unanswered Iconic!!

Ralph,
I might not completely understand your question. But, maybe this will clear it up.
My Gray car is vin 11304412012160, it was built in Aug of '69 as a US 1970 model. The wheels were manufactured in June '69, so all checks out for the wheels and the hubcaps have greenish paint on the back and are chromed, not stainless steel.
mercakungen's (Matti) car is a '70 (listed in his signature) his wheels were made in 9/69 and his vin is shown in a picture as 11304412013181, so clearly it was built after my car and he also has greenish paint on the back of his wheel covers. Both of these cars were built long after early '69.
Additionally, 49er has paint on the back of his wheel covers, which, I believe, is a '69. I don't remember if John's (49er) is an early or late '69.

I am challenging the "alternate fact" that I have heard many times and several times in this string that MB went to stainless steel wheel covers with no paint on the back of it in early '69 for the Pagoda. Even Dan states it in this string and he is pretty much usually correct.
Is it really true?
I don't think so. From my experience (which many people have much more experience than me) I am thinking the Pagoda used chromed wheel covers with greenish paint on the back all the way to the end of production in '71 (I am talking about the one piece cover only, not the early 2 piece cover).

[bogeyman]

Other than finding an original owner like John with a later 280SL, I don't know how to verify.
 I bought my '70 (ser # 018286) in 1982. It was original as far as I could tell and not very well kept.
It has stainless wheel covers. Were they changed? Possibly, but the condition of the car at that time indicated
a lack of general maintenance. I doubt the owner bought new wheel covers but I can't state that for certain.
So the mystery remains...

[Jonny B]

Just to add a bit more confusion to this. My 280 SL is 12730, Sept 1969 build, listed as a 1970. The one piece wheel covers are chromed, and not stainless. But the inside is painted primer red.... but it appears it is brushed on. I have a spare wheel cover with the inside unpainted, and it is stainless.

[Iconic]

Not that much confusion, yes, just a bit.
You car was built in between my and Matti's cars.
You have chromed wheel covers like we both do.
The backs are primer red. So, how confident are you that they are original to the car?
How confident are you that they have never been re-chromed?
Your spare wheel cover is irrelevant since these cars never came with a spare wheel cover, correct?

Now bogeyman's comment puts a fly in the ointment.
But, so far we could definitely use some more facts.
Thanks Johnny and bogeymen

[neelyrc]

Ralph,
I might not completely understand your question.....

Iconic, I was being a bit facetious.  We know the exact month and year our cars were built yet we assign them a model year (in the U.S.) based on a date set by the manufacturer to fill a bureaucratic need.  Based on the actual build dates 49er’s car (003820) would be a 1968 model your car (012160) and Matti’s car (013181) would be 1969 models.  The model year of my car (007749) would remain 1969 due to a January build date.  This system resulted in eurocars delivered late in the year being given a year earlier model number than similarly numbered cars delivered to the U.S.  There is at least one example of this in our Registry.  But I digress.  Back to this thread!

It appears where we stand as of today is that up to 1/69 (when my car was built) chrome covers with green paint inside was the order of the day.  No verifiable information has been produced (yet) to show that there was a change to stainless covers prior to the end of production.  As you say, we could definitely use some more facts.

[mdsalemi]

You are not implying that Stainless Steel was ever used from the factory on Pagodas, correct?

Precisely. I suspect that at some point in production (of wheel covers, not cars!) they just shifted to stainless steel. The hologram label on the back of my wheel covers indicates OEM and original (as opposed to third party reproduction). I agree with the general consensus that the Pagoda never came with SS wheel covers during its production run--these were an afterthought.

...and since the topie is "hubcap restoration guidance" I also suggested that the cost to restore a wheel cover in chrome might be more ghastly in price than a new stainless version--if you can find them. I don't know if they are still in production.  I might add that one of the reasons I sought new hubcaps was that the existing ones original to the car were, in a word, trashed. Rusty on the back, full of road rash, scrapes, deep gouges and more; the hazards of running a car too close to the curb over decades. They were beyond any kind of restoration. I imagine many others are pretty far gone too.

[Jonny B]

To answer the questions posed, as a result of my post.

Correct that there was not a spare wheel cover. I am guessing the previous owner got one from Joe A somewhere along the line.

I don't believe they have been rechromed.

I also would suspect that the red primer inside is a "mod along the way." Not original for the car.

[Benz Dr.]

It's easy for me to print misinformation because I know everything.

[mbzse]

I think I have some 1971 date coded rims.../...

I happened to see this webpage. The car is Ch No 22140, with original spare tire (Firestone Phoenix P110). Produced Nov 1970. Has the typical 108 400 0002 rim with three "noses"
http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sales/JB130/
When I look at the hubcap pictures, they sure have a great shine and look like "chrome type" to my eyes