Did it have a radio when it left the factory?

[pj]

I've tried to read all our resources on this topic, but I'm still uncertain. My Data Card does not have a radio code on it. Does that necessarily mean there was no radio when it left the factory?

The p.o. kept the modern radio that was installed in the dash when I bought the car. But that doesn't tell me what was there before. The attached photo shows the piece of the dashboard that held the radio. What's puzzling is that the rectangular cut out that holds the radio shows uneven edges, as if it was cut by snips and not stamped cleanly by the factory. So it occurred to me that maybe the famous "radio delete plate" that we hear about was in fact not the way the factory delivered a W113 that didn't already have a radio. Would a car without a radio have left the factory with a smooth metal dashboard with no slot for a radio at all?

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi PJ,
The radio cover is definately a loose cover plate, even the earlier 190SL also had a loose plate. The hole was designed for a 'Mercedes' radio, if I am correct, it was a Becker Mexico or something like that.
My point is, if the hole looks home made, it was probably McGuivered by a previous owner, in order to take a larger, non standard radio.
Regards
Chris

[Jordan]

Peter, what are the dimensions of your slot for the radio.  Yours should be 177 x 45mm, which is what it says in the tech manual.  Anything larger and it has been, as Chris says, McGuivered by a PO.

[49er]

 My 250 SL was ordered with a radio and the dealer installed it leaving the cover plate in the glove box. When I traded the 250 in for my 280SL, I took the radio out of 250 and put the cover plate back on. I then installed the radio, a Blaupunkt "Frankfurt"  myself in the 280 and I kept the cover plate. The cutout was identical in both cars.

John

[pj]

Thanks, guys. Considering how much money is being spent on sheet metal already, I may as well ask the body shop to make up a new plate to the original specs.

I was surprised to learn about this radio plate in the first place. If you had asked me two weeks ago, I would have said the radio slot is right in the sheet metal of the dashboard. This makes me think again about how difficult it is to do any work behind the dash. So my next question is, how hard is it to remove this radio plate from the dash of a fully-assembled car? I'm looking at some old photos of the underside of the dash, but I can't quite make out what's required to get the radio plate off -- presumably with the clock and Zigarrenzünder still attached. Wouldn't that make it a lot easier to reach in behind and service the instrument cluster?

[114015]

Hello Peter,

two things:
Your old center dash plate (with the opening for the radio) looks as if it was worked on - bastardized, so to speak  . Clearly an opening for a DIN-sized (= regular) radio, not the flatter ones the 230ies and early 250ies had.
A new center plate should be not the hardest problem for a sheet metal guy; otherwise you can get one from Authentic Classic or equivalent dealers. Not too expensive.

2) Whether or not your car was delivered with radio or not (like John 49er's both cars) can only safely be answered if you look on your data card. Have you got a number code in the 51 field or not (https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/OptionCodes)? If not - no radio. Dealer-installed Blaupunkts (or Telefunken or Grundig) don't count ! Those are dealer-installed, not factory-fitted.

Achim
(with non-dealer installer Beckerradio & radio deletion plate)

[66andBlue]

.... So my next question is, how hard is it to remove this radio plate from the dash of a fully-assembled car? I'm looking at some old photos of the underside of the dash, but I can't quite make out what's required to get the radio plate off -- presumably with the clock and Zigarrenzünder still attached. Wouldn't that make it a lot easier to reach in behind and service the instrument cluster?

Peter,
removing the radio will give you some access to the speedometer provided you have small and very flexible hands. There is a metal divider between the radio space and the speedo that restricts full access.
To remove the radio you'll have to remove the glove box, the lower dash pads and the chrome strip. IMO, not worth the effort.

[pj]

Thank you for those photos! It's reassuring to see it in a separate car from my own.

So, what would have to be different to make the radio, clock and Zigarrenzünder all come out easily, in one piece still attached to the rectangular plate, without removing the glovebox and most of the underside of the dash? It might seem complicated now, but if it will look perfectly normal from the outside and yet it will help future workers to access the inside of the dash for simple maintenance, then maybe it's worth customizing this set up while the whole thing is in a dozen separate pieces anyway.

I'll measure the McGyvered slot next time I'm at the shop, but I'm pretty well certain it's not the standard size.

My Data Card is blank in the 51x position. I will presume it left the factory without a radio, and plan accordingly   

[Benz Dr.]

We will get a repro plate for you and I have an original delete plate if you decide to go that route.

[cfm65@me.com]

Peter,
I understand your frustration, but there is no need to modify the dash setup. The dash is part of the car(not a loose part) Search for some of the full restoration fotos and note the bare body still has the dash in place. I would really not go that route.
Once you got every thing back in place, there is no need to go back in there. The radio cover plate is not a big deal to put back or remove again at a later stage. I cant remember exactly but I think it clips in somehow.
Removing and reinstalling the glove box is no biggie (think of it as 'bonding time') and again once it is in you dont have to go back there for many years.
The good Dr Benz says he has got a cover plate for you, so you are halfway there.
Regards
Chris

[Garry]

I agree with Chris that you really should only need to do it once correctly and not then go back in there. As Chris said, the plate just clips in and the glove box is easy to remove and return, its getting in further into the dash to the instruments that is the hard part and where ‘small hands’  are a blessing.

[pj]

I will take your advice, but of course it's not the radio or glove box I'm worried about. It's the instrument clusters. There's always something going wrong in there, and it's crazy not to be able to remove all or part of it for maintenance

[Jordan]

Peter, if you are at all concerned about the gauges themselves maybe you should send them out for a refresh, just to make sure there is nothing inside ready to go and maybe replace anything that looks worn.  I recently sent a fuel gauge from another car to Seattle Speedometer and they fixed it and sent it back in one day.  You can't beat that service.

[Benz Dr.]

On 230SL's there's a dash panel and a radio delete plate which are two distinct parts. The panel is available after market and the delete plate may be too.

[pj]

Hi Dan,
I guess I know that now
Actually, I checked SLS and K&K and at least one other aftermarket supplier online catalogue and I can't find that small dash panel that holds the radio, the clock and the Zigarrenzünder

[114015]

Hi Dan,
I guess I know that now
Actually, I checked SLS and K&K and at least one other aftermarket supplier online catalogue and I can't find that small dash panel that holds the radio, the clock and the Zigarrenzünder

Hello Peter,
You need to look a little further and seek deeper.
Knut from Classic Manufactur in Goslar, Germany has got it

http://www.classic-manufactur-goslar.de/index.php/nachfertigungen

You would need to write him an email though ...

Or Authentic Classics has got it as well. They "have got everything" we need.
Also the radio deletion plate and the corresponding model signs for it.
Go have a look !

https://www.authenticclassics.com/Mercedes-230SL-250SL-Dashboard-Radio-Mount-Plate-p/auth-003066.htm
https://www.authenticclassics.com/category-s/45.htm?searching=Y&sort=2&cat=45&show=14&page=2

Achim
(1971 230)

[waltklatt]

Just made one for a member here, using my original plate as a basis.
Not too hard to do, but the grinding and drilling to get the holes in the right place is a bit tricky.
Walter

[Pawel66]

If I may - I had a similar situation in my car - the PO (one of them) enlarged the radio slot to accomodate bigger radio. There was also an extra hole in the dash for something that looked like a socket for earphones with large jack plug. Obviously to me: if you do not plan to use a larger, modern radio and rather go back to original type of radios that were fitted, the chassis work time is probably the best time to bring the slot size to original dimensions. Doing it later requires dismantling of the whole dash, mess, painting again etc. So I would make really sure that all the holes you have in the dash are original and those that are not original - better make sure you decide if you want to keep them. It is not like in 190SL - where the dash comes off. But in 190SL it is a whole different story as dash configuration was changed significantly over years. Here it is easier.

Instruments rebuild - as advised above - better do it even if they seem to be ok now. I leraned it the hard way - both the tacho and speedo I had to pull out ahd get fixed after the car was done. First tacho and then a couple of months later the speedo, that requires taking out tacho . And the a couple of monthe later the fuel gauge . Someone changed the fuel level indication system in my 280SL. I replaced the sender (easy) and found out I had to replace the gauge as well (not so easy).

Another thing, obvious to some, to others not: bulbs. Replace all of them when you have instruments out. Lighting, reserve, charging, brakes/door - all of them. Working/not working -
 does not matter. Or change to LED. There are various schools. I am a bulb fan - I like this dimmed yellowish light, it creates mood...

Access to instruments was a nightmare (there are many schools from wich side to get there), now I can do it in 15min with my eyes closed . But the learning was hard - you do not want to go through it.

I am attaching picture of my dash with bigger radio slot and an additional hole (a little quiz - which one is it?) You may see the hole down left from the instrument cluster - this is the one that you probably (probably) should not have in 230SL as it is for the hazard lights switch (but not sure, better check it).

My car was ordered without radio. I now have Europa. But I still need to go figure out how to fully eliminate statics.