Blown Engine, time for some hard decisions, opinions welcome

[johnshenry]

'69, 280SL Auto.  Bought in 2010, gift to my wife for surviving 20 years of marriage to me.  We put maybe 6k mi on it, and last year paid a seasoned Benz mechanic $5k to go over the drivetrain and mechanicals.  Engine and subframe mounts, front seal, and other stuff.  It was running wonderfully.  Was.

A few weeks back, my wife was driving it behind me in my my '57 VW to a German car day event.  I just happened to be looking in the rear view on the highway when I saw a puff of white smoke, then a huge cloud of white smoke that enveloped the car,  She pulled it over quickly.  It didn't seem overheated, but wouldn't turn over.  Nothing leaking from it.  Luckily we were 2 exits and 10 mins from our mechanic.  A AAA call and flatbed ride away, and the keys were dropped in the slot and we went to the event in my trusty VW.

Call today from the shop, worst possible scenario.  Engine blown, connecting rod broken on one cyl, ball bearings in the oil pan, time for a new engine they say.  Quote is $18k-$20k, assuming full core charge returned. 

Lots to think about.

So my analysis, given what I know I have in the car now, and what I *think* it is worth with a blown engine, and with a new one, is this:

Dump it with blown engine to what ever the market will pay.  My guess is that I'll lose $10k-$15k, but will still have, of course the 7 years of enjoyment.

Have a new engine installed and I will have a 280 with a brandy new engine, worth more than it was before it imploded, and I can sell it, and probably break even (again, my guess). Or close. Or, keep it, have the (happy) wife keep driving it, and it will probably increase in value to some degree.

Simple math makes it a no brainer for me, but I want to get opinions here.  And yes, I know this is over simplified and there are LOTS of other questions to be asked, not the least of which is what is the condition of the rest of the car.  I will not divulge what I have in it at this point.

It was restored in the 80s, and presents very well.  Near flawless paint.  Interior I'd say is a 8.5/10, showing some sun fading but no real wear.  Transmission leaks fluid but shifts well.  We have the original hard top.  Some rust staining showing underneath at seams/pinch welds but nothing else.  Owner history since new is documented.  Once owned by CEO of Staples.

So, the questions I have are:

What is a '69 280SL, solid body and usable tranny and other mechanicals, but with a blown engine, worth?

What is the ballpark range for a '69 280SL Auto, with a brand new engine installed by a highly competent Benz mechanic (trust me on that), that otherwise is a 8-9/10 car?  Shop quoted $14k for the rebuilt engine by itself.   Sound right??   Again, I know more details are needed, but I have been watching ads/sales over the last 5 or so years an have my opinions.  Yours??  Recent sales?


Thanks in advance for any insights, can post other pics later.

[cabrioletturbo]

John,

Your car looks too nice to dump!

Without much of details known, I would go for a rebuild if I were you. $14K seem in the range of full rebuild.
Alternatively, you could find a decent 280SE engine to put it in while you take longer time/cheaper approach to overhaul of your engine.

If you decide not to partake in the overhaul, I am sure you would find several members interested in the car, as-is.
Just remember that once it is sold, sentimental value goes with it as well. That right there may convince you to keep it.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

[DaveB]

$18-20k for the shop rebuild sounds way too high. You could instead buy Scott's car here for the motor:

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=26042.msg188322#msg188322

..and if you can pay my flights I'd love to drive it LA to Boston 

[stickandrudderman]

The price of the rebuild sounds about right but bear in mind that if your block and/or crank are damaged they'll have no core value.
You've loved the car until now. Do you still love it and will you continue to love it for years to come?  If so then have the engine built.

[merrill]

call mike at metric motors.    generic rebuilds are about 7K.

[ja17]

My guess is that you will have over 12K in it with even with the generic Metric rebuild (short block). Add core charge (your old one is not usable), shipping, and lots of your mechanics labor.  Still well worth the investment.

[mdsalemi]

Just in case you don't believe the others, my opinion is have the engine removed, and provided it isn't broken into little bits there are plenty of valuable bits--and ship it all to Metric Motors. Speak with Mike there in advance.

Your car sounds just great, and all it needs is a new power source.

[waltklatt]

John,
Sorry to hear of your loss, but not the worst!

I am puzzled as to the "ball bearings" in the oil sump?
Where would they come from?

Was your wife driving very fast when it "destructed"?
I drove my 1968 280SL at 90mph and blew the head gasket, but nothing else was damaged.  Just huge clouds of white smoke.
Rebuilt the top end and all was fine.

I would probably look around for a better shop for the work, the mechanic looked over all the mechanicals and found nothing wrong and charged $5k for it.
Perhaps Gernold Nisius(Maine) or Henry Magno(West Boston) would be a better bet for you.
Wiser to have the car in expert hands who know the older MB's.
And they can handle the Metric Motors rebuild path.

Besides, this is your gift to your wife for putting up with 25 years now with you, and not really a replacement.  Cant replace the wife, right?
I most certainly wont with mine.  Keep the gift going with a repair.
I just had the transmission(blew a hole in itself) and injection pump(leaked) replaced on my wife's everyday car.  Yellow 2003 VW Beetle diesel with white flower wheels(hey it's what she wants).

Hope you feel encouraged to fix the 280SL.

Best,
Walter

[johnshenry]

Thanks for the tips/encouragement.   If I wasn't clear, the shop quoted me for a replacement/rebuilt engine, and cautioned me that I might not get all/some of the $2600 core (which is over and above the $18-20K quote) depending on the usability of the parts in the blown engine.  They were not quoting rebuilding my engine, they don't do that level of work.  I had looked at the Metric Motors site before, when I was concerned that the engine might not be recoverable.  The site shows "LONGBLOCK: $8,550.00 EXCHANGE " for a 280SL engine.  I had asked my shop (talking to the admin guy, not the mechanic yesterday)  who would they get the new engine from and he wasn't sure but would get back to me.   

Opinions on rough value of this car with a new engine?  I haven't been watch ads recently.  I guy in a town next to me just sold his for ~$75k but it VERY nice, fresh new interior, etc.

I think no matter what, I will drive down to the shop and talk with the mechanic in person in the next day or two.

[johnshenry]

Thanks Walter for the advice.  I too had wondered about the viability of the engine given that he had it in his shop and went over it recently, but for sure, you can't test for a weakened rod in a shop.  The odometer shows 117k or so, so the engine had been well used.  I don't doubt the skills of the mechanic, he has been working on Benzs' for over 30 years.  He knows the old engines very well.  However I will seek other opinions from other shops as well.  I know Gernold also.

She was going 55-60 when the engine went.  Said in the seconds leading up to it, heard a loud grinding, then a bang.  Sure sounds like a rod.

I think I will explore the Metric Motors route since he was going to ship the engine anyway.  I will call them to discuss as well. 

John,
Sorry to hear of your loss, but not the worst!

I am puzzled as to the "ball bearings" in the oil sump?
Where would they come from?

Was your wife driving very fast when it "destructed"?
I drove my 1968 280SL at 90mph and blew the head gasket, but nothing else was damaged.  Just huge clouds of white smoke.
Rebuilt the top end and all was fine.

I would probably look around for a better shop for the work, the mechanic looked over all the mechanicals and found nothing wrong and charged $5k for it.
Perhaps Gernold Nisius(Maine) or Henry Magno(West Boston) would be a better bet for you.
Wiser to have the car in expert hands who know the older MB's.
And they can handle the Metric Motors rebuild path.

Besides, this is your gift to your wife for putting up with 25 years now with you, and not really a replacement.  Cant replace the wife, right?
I most certainly wont with mine.  Keep the gift going with a repair.
I just had the transmission(blew a hole in itself) and injection pump(leaked) replaced on my wife's everyday car.  Yellow 2003 VW Beetle diesel with white flower wheels(hey it's what she wants).

Hope you feel encouraged to fix the 280SL.

Best,
Walter

[mclewis]

You also may want to contact Jim Cosgrove at Oldtimer Restorations in Harvard, MA.  He rebuilt the top end of my 280SL last year and it now runs like a top.

[Benz Dr.]

A broken connecting rod will do a lot of damage such as bent crank and broken piston. The head may be OK and not need to be replaced with a general rebuild if needed.  The problem with damage like this is all of the small shards of metal that goes through the whole engine. Most will get filtered out but some won't. Make sure you have the oil cooler and oil lines cleaned well if you decide to rebuild.

[Cees Klumper]

$18-20k for the shop rebuild sounds way too high. You could instead buy Scott's car here for the motor:

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=26042.msg188322#msg188322

..and if you can pay my flights I'd love to drive it LA to Boston 

X2

[scoot]

I'll make you a great deal on my 1970 280SE parts car w/ $8000 engine rebuild, $2000 injection pump and fuel pump,....

[Alex D]

Thats $18-20k for engine rebuild & detail or just engine rebuild?  A good detail by someone who know what they are doing is in the neighborhood of $8k, which could be in addition to the $18-20k.  I would definately ask more questions as to the definition of rebuild and what that includes. 

[Tom]

Did you take it to someone else and get a second opinion? 

[johnshenry]

Is it still available?  I notice that the Craigslist ad is down.  {Scoots car in CA that is.}

[Benz Dr.]

Engine building isn't just a rebuild. There's pulling the engine and all of the other parts that go with it. If you want everything detailed, engine bay painted, ancillaries rebuilt, and no corners cut, it won't be cheap. It's a lot more work than some might believe and mid teens or more isn't out of line.

[Cees Klumper]

I'll make you a great deal on my 1970 280SE parts car w/ $8000 engine rebuild, $2000 injection pump and fuel pump,....

Given Scott's reply it's still available. I really think this is your best solution at this time given the amounts being mentioned. Last price Scott was asking as I recall was $3,000 and for that you get lots more useable parts that you would be able to sell later and probably recoup most of your cost. So to a stingy Dutch accountant like me this seems like the proverbial 'no-brainer'.

[johnshenry]

What are the differences between the 280SE engine and the 280SL??

Given Scott's reply it's still available. I really think this is your best solution at this time given the amounts being mentioned. Last price Scott was asking as I recall was $3,000 and for that you get lots more useable parts that you would be able to sell later and probably recoup most of your cost. So to a stingy Dutch accountant like me this seems like the proverbial 'no-brainer'.

[johnshenry]

I sent Scott a PM.  This might be a good option, thanks....

JH

[Khurram Darugar]

Car looks like a keeper.  Crewe engines here in the UK do this work for less than 50% of what you have been quoted and offer a 1 year warranty.  Not sure that helps, but possibly you might try and find an merc engine rebuilder.  They are often more competitive price wise, and the work is faultless as its their core competency.  Good Luck. 

[Khurram Darugar]

Sorry just saw your response and yes that is obviously a very good option.

[scoot]

Is it still available?  I notice that the Craigslist ad is down.  {Scoots car in CA that is.}

sorry about that, yes it's available.  Updated link:  https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/6202865411.html

[Cees Klumper]

Practically, the only difference between the SE and SL engines is (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the SE engine does not have the tachometer drive gear. But it has the slot for it, so that can be simply swapped over from your existing engine. The fuel injection pump is a bit different, but, again, you can swap the existing one, or stay with the current one if that's in better condition, I doubt you would notice much of a difference. The engine itself is identical AFAIK, reason that there are so many Pagodas with SE engines these days.