Automatic transmission knob

[watson2]

Hi guys. In my 230 MY1964 with automatic transmission the knob has the indication of the 1,2,3,4 and R gears position. It is not smooth.
I am sure that in the last 25 years this knob was not changed and I have no reason to think that in the previous 25 it was changed.
I read with great attention the great work of Frank Mallory and I didn't find any note about a possible change of the knob in 1964 and 1965.
So I ask to you: has any of you an automatic gearbox with a manual gearbox knob?
Thank in advance

[66andBlue]

Flavio,
all automatic cars have consoles with the gear positions indicated, 230SL on the left, 280SL on the right and illuminated.
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/TransmissionClutch/AutoshifterConsoles.jpg

Thus, there is no need for the shifter ball having any numbers or symbols, only manual cars have balls with engraved shift patterns.

[Jonny B]

To update this a bit. For US delivery cars the shift gate light (and the change in the lettering) occurred at VIN 2980 for the 250 SL ( this was part of the big safety/DOT update). See Pagoda Notes Vol 10 No 4, with the reprint of the articles from Frank Mallory's translation of the list of changes in the Engelen book.

Not clear on this change for any rest of the world deliveries. I did scan through the list of 280 SL changes and did not see it listed.

[watson2]

To update this a bit. For US delivery cars the shift gate light (and the change in the lettering) occurred at VIN 2980 for the 250 SL ( this was part of the big safety/DOT update). See Pagoda Notes Vol 10 No 4, with the reprint of the articles from Frank Mallory's translation of the list of changes in the Engelen book.

Not clear on this change for any rest of the world deliveries. I did scan through the list of 280 SL changes and did not see it listed.

Thank you Jonny. This could explain why my car (#2208) has no shift gate light at all.
By the way : the only part that could be illuminated in my car is the nylon inlay of the shift gate because numbers and letters on the 230 are not transparent.  Are these transparemt on 250 and 280 cars?
Last 2 notes : 1) on a spare parts catalog I found an image where it seems that the bulb was present on 250 and 280 models and on 230 starting with 13333 VIN.
2) the nylon inlay is sold by MB in the 250 and 280 version only and it has small differences in the position of the slots through which the tabs fastening the insert on the metal gate pass.

[scoot]

The later style is transparent where the characters are so you see the illuminated plastic thing. I don't think you can use the late plastic insert in the early shift gate, but I might be wrong.  The later plastic thing has tabs where the light snaps into place and where there is a cable hold down for the light.  The early one wouldn't have that.  But you can switch from one to the other.  And I have some on ebay for sale.

[66andBlue]

With a bit of effort you can put a late plastic insert into a 230SL console but not the other way around.

It appears that nobody is looking at the photos and/or reading the text in the technical manual. I wonder why?
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/TransmissionClutch/Shifter#Auto_ShiftGate

[watson2]

Thanks Alfred.
Yes, with a little effort, a new slot and an excavation on the other side were enough to fit the last nylon guide on my 230.
We had 2 options and at last we used the MB original guide that fit perfectly with little adaptations.
As you can see, the early 230 had only 4 tabs.

But even after I read all about this matter , I did not find an answer to my question.
The question made with my first message can seem stupid , but it was made to know if the knob on my car is original or not.
I have a suspect: the first automatic gearbox was produced in 1963, october and my car was completed only 4 months later.
So who knows ? It could be that the first cars with automatic gearbox were delivered with the knob I have because the smooth one was not yet ready. It is possible. Why not?
So I ask again : is there any member that has or has seen a knob like mine on an early automatic 230 SL?   
Thanks in advance

[66andBlue]

Thanks Alfred.
Yes, with a little effort, a new slot and an excavation on the other side were enough to fit the last nylon guide on my 230.
We had 2 options and at last we used the MB original guide that fit perfectly with little adaptations.
As you can see, the early 230 had only 4 tabs.

Thanks Flavio!
Can you add the info and picture to the text in technical manual, please?

...
I have a suspect: the first automatic gearbox was produced in 1963, october and my car was completed only 4 months later.
So who knows ? It could be that the first cars with automatic gearbox were delivered with the knob I have because the smooth one was not yet ready. It is possible. Why not?

Why not? Because Messieurs Nallinger and Uhlenhaut would have gone through the roof if a car with automatic gearbox but manual shift pattern knob would have reached the end of the assembly line. No, not in those days when the company bosses were still very much detail oriented.
But of course, I would humbly eat crow if someone can convincingly demonstrate that such a car made it to sales floor.

[Iconic]

But of course, I would humbly eat crow if someone can convincingly demonstrate that such a car made it to sales floor.

I predict that Alfred will NOT be eating crow.
I will join Alfred and eat crow if early automatic 230 SLs had the manual trans 4 speed shift pattern on the shift ball as they came off the factory floor.

Unless you get some quick support here watson, I think you should forget about it and get yourself a correct ball on the end of your automatic shifter. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. 
Good luck to you.

[mbzse]

.../...Because Messieurs Nallinger and Uhlenhaut would have gone through the roof if a car with automatic gearbox but manual shift pattern knob would have reached the end of the assembly line. No, not in those days when the company bosses were still very much detail oriented.../...

Hear hear, Alfred   (and Mark).  In those days, 50 years ago during the so called (German) "Industrial Wonder" time, car production was something else...  Lots of pride and attention (and time) lavished upon the items on the production line. Labour was relatively cheap, materials were not!
I sometimes giggle when I read the M-B sales literature, ensuring their customers "15% of our production line staff are verifiers" And, those verifiers were tough, they would not let anything other than perfect pass.
But - what costs this verification process brings with it! Small wonder the M-B were such an exclusive automobile at that time

[Jonny B]

A very interesting quote. From a long background in quality systems. You don't inspect quality into a product, you build it in from the start. I recall a Ford ad from a little later, that touted how many inspectors Ford had on the production line. The more inspectors you have, more times than not quality decreases, "Oh, the other guy down the line will catch it....!"

[66andBlue]

Jon,
I believe you blend two different aspects together here, quality and accuracy. Of course, you build quality into a product from the start but then you also have to insure that it is installed accurately. Obviously the issue at hand is not the quality of the automatic transmission or of the shifter ball.
Watson raised the possibility that DB knowingly and willingly installed a wrong product because they did not have all the parts together yet. Given the culture prevalent at DB at the time this possibility has a very low probability. I believe Sherlock would tell Watson the same. 
Now could an installer on the assembly line by mistake mount a manual shifter ball into an automatic? Quite possible, but that is the reason why you employ 15% verifiers to catch those mistakes.

[watson2]

Can you add the info and picture to the text in technical manual, please?

Done, Alfred. It's an honor to add something to the manual, but please check my English. I'm not a champion....

My doubts became stronger when I saw a Shifter gate like this, completely smooth.
So how could be the gate of the car before this or after this ?
And 2 cars before or after?   
Unless it was an aftermarket.
Now I will investigate some more and I will let you know the results.

[Benz Dr.]

I have a 1963 230SL in right now and it was one of the last built that year ( Dec. 13 / 63 ) and it's an auto trans car. There were about 85 - 90 cars that left the factory with auto trans that year so they're not common. Shifter knob is black and smooth - no shift pattern.