Help!!! Soft Top Stuck!

[n/a]

Hello All,
The Pagoda is finally here and I'm happy with it. However, I have a problem with the soft top.
I think I bent one of the arms while trying to push it down, and the back of the soft top under the rear window goes back too far that it rubs against the two arms of the box cover when i try to pull it back. It doesn't seem to fold down anymore and I don't want to force it. So now it doesn't fold down and it doesn't go back on, which means I cannot drive the car  
Anyone ever encountered this? I would appreciate any suggestions.
Mo

[pagode.info]

Hi Mo,

You own a 280 SL (?) Am I right?

Your not the first having this
problem. One way is to unscrew
the top frame and take it out.
Reinstall it and take care of
not slipping the rear bow alone
in the compartment.

When using the top always grab
the whole unit and bring it in
vertical position. Then close the
lid.

The rear bow can only jam when
he`s alone in the compartment.

He will not jam when the top
is folded together.

Did You try to fold the top
back in it`s compartment ?

Good Luck,

Tom  

 



www.pagode.info

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Mo

Hello All,
The Pagoda is finally here and I'm happy with it. However, I have a problem with the soft top.
I think I bent one of the arms while trying to push it down, and the back of the soft top under the rear window goes back too far that it rubs against the two arms of the box cover when i try to pull it back. It doesn't seem to fold down anymore and I don't want to force it. So now it doesn't fold down and it doesn't go back on, which means I cannot drive the car  
Anyone ever encountered this? I would appreciate any suggestions.
Mo

Hi Moe,

WELCOME!  Sounds like you've been "baptized" into 113-hood by having a "soft-top wedgie"!  We've all done it.  Funny thing is if you read and follow the instructions, it'll never happen!  Go here for complete instructions on how to solve--

http://pagoda113.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=3846000021&f=3296041521&m=4496041521

Good Luck!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Ricardo]

Mo
I'm pretty sure this topic has been disscussed before, so if you use the search function you should find some more info on this. I haven't had this problem but I think some folks managed to get it unstuck without taking the whole frame off, if I remember correctly.
Rodd seems to be able to find exactly the right postings, so he may wade in here with more help.
Wish the only reason I wasn't driving my car was a stuck softtop, instead of -30C and 18" of snow.
Ricardo

[mal]

Hello Mohannad
"Mabrouk" for the car. Do not panic, This happens all the time, as mentioned this has been covered many times, use the search.
Good luck and post some photos.
Regards

Malek Mrowa - Beirut, Lebanon.
280SL 71- Light Blue-/Blue
190SL 61 - Silver/Red

[rwmastel]

www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=2245
www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=900
www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=799
www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=791


Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Ed Cave]

Does this stuck soft-top syndrome happen more often when lowering the top or raising it? It sounds like the key is to always be sure the rear bow is snugged up with the rest of the frame and I assume this means whether you are lowering or raising it. Is that correct?

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA

1964 356C
1971 280SL

[Cees Klumper]

Seems to me that, when lowering the top, there is no risk of wedging it in, since the rear bow can only go in once you have raised the lid, and that you can only do if you lift the whole rear of the softtop. Then you drop it in the well, close the lid and you're done. The problem occurs (fortunately has not happened to me yet) when you go to put the top up again: raise lid, lift the softtop out of the well while leaving the rear bow in there: problem.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Douglas]

Cees, sometimes if there isn't enough tension in the top frame, the rear window will fall back into the well on its own. Depends on the condition of the frame. Bottom line is it can happen either putting it up or down if the frame isn't "tight." It used to happen all the time to a friend of mine in my garage here in the City.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[n/a]

Thanks to all of you who pitched in with suggestions to this seemingly common problem.
I followed the diredtions well. I was able to unscrew the two screwes at the outermost elements after a long struggle with them. I had to reach under the side of soft top to get to these screws. And guess what? I found markings and scratches, which means that the previous ownver was there before.
I'm not sure that I solved the problem permanently. I still think that the lower bow goes far in the soft box compartment, and I had to push it down with force in order to be able to close the cover. I will try it again soon. Meanwhile I'm enjoying the warm Dubai weather. Thanks again to all. I will post some pics soon. I'm Off to the beach  

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Mo

.... and I had to push it down with force in order to be able to close the cover. I

Glad you got it fixed!

Yes, the top is a tight fit and the lid must be slammed closed.  The two "screws" that lock the leading bow into the windshield frame point up when the soft top is folded into the well.  The lid should have two rubber squares, about 1 inch square and 1/8 inch thick, to protect the well lid from these pointed steel "screws".

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Dick M]

When my bottom bow was stuck I had to releas the spring loaded hinges on each side of the main hing and it came right out.
I have diagram but can't figure out how to attach.
If you have not solved problem I'll work on sending attachment

Dick M
1970 280SL

Download Attachment: soft top latches 1.jpg
53.77 KB

[n/a]

I think I screwed it up. I was able to get the two screws out after a hard struggle but the problem was not soved. The same thing happened again. The soft top always get stuck in the compatrment every time i put it dow, and I have to unscrew the two arms in order to get it released. The problem is that the screws are being worn out to the point where i will soon not be able to unscrew them!  I think I need new ones. But I still need to find a permanent solution to this problem. Is it possible that my frame is damaged? Are these frames available? Anyone ever replaced them?
Thanks
Mo
1969 280 SL Silver/Black/Black

[pagode.info]

Use a belt around the folded frame,
when You put it back into the softtop
compartment. By using a belt You are
able to take the whole thing out as
one unit.

Good Luck,

Tom

   

[Douglas]

Mo,

Call Gernold at SL Tech in Maine and have a conversation with him. He's one of the few people who repairs these frames. I belive he's on the list of vendors on this site.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[rwmastel]

Mo,

The entire soft top frame needs to come out at once, so the belt/strap idea is a good one.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Ben]

On my car when I fold the rear bow up it locks in place with two little adjustable ball spring devices !

Do they all have these and if so maybe adjustment is all that required !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

[bjudd]

quote:Originally posted by Dick M
 
When my bottom bow was stuck I had to releas the spring loaded hinges on each side of the main hing and it came right out.
I have diagram but can't figure out how to attach.
If you have not solved problem I'll work on sending attachment

Dick M
1970 280SL

Download Attachment: soft top latches 1.jpg
53.77 KB

my gratitude for this post is enormous, having just fixed my first wedgie.  I would like to add that the "L" bracket that others rever to didn't look much like an L to me when looking for the piece to push out.  this diagram helps-  and I would describe it as the aluminum piece sticking straight up, tucked back in behind the mechanisms to which the springs attatch.  Mine were very easy to push out by hand.  the reference to big screwdrivers made me think I was in for a physical struggle.   Not so.

bjudd
1969 280 SL 5 sp

[Dick M]

I have wrestled with my soft top many times.  Each time I learn a little  more.... I have a new top on the shelf and when I finally feel that I can adjust and store the top without damaging it, I'll put it on...maybe.

Dick M
1970 280SL

[isofast]

Ben I see that you posted up in December of 2004. so forgive me for the not so fast response but the ball spring catch was a great design and Benz went away from the wood bow and sadly the spring ball catch that came standard on the well designed 230SL soft top. The spring ball catch keep's the bows in a tight uniform bundle so that the top frame assembly can be lowered into the not so big compartment. Us 280 SL guys have to remember to keep the top in a bundle when lowering or raising the top. Many resort to a soft belt to cinch the top togather No catch ball for us.  Once the top gets some wear (soft metal that nickel and the hinges not much better) the top frame gets a little out of whack and the rear bow wants to fall down by it's lonesome self sometimes, especially if one or more of the retainment springs for the bow is missing (most are missing one or two of the four springs or tension wires. Many wealthy people back in the day would have Benz dealers remove the assembly for the winter and place the hardtop on so to reduce the chance of mold and shrinkage on the soft top. Not a bad idea and some people on this board are smart and hang their soft tops up in their garage over the winter while their hardtop is on. Remember your soft top will last a long time if it is left in the up postion stored on or off your car in your garage left to the elements or some feel worse yet... rubbing around wet and moldy all winter in your not so big top compartment. Gernold at SL TECH is the most respected top man today. I could only afford my local top shop guy and he got mine to work good enough for me. Mercedes Benz did build a ship in a bottle with their top design. Missing and bent parts combined with the canvas shrinking from being wet can cause problems.
A  badly shrunken top can sometimes be made more pliable by washing with a fabric softner like downy and then let the top dry out slowly in your garage. Once dry you can knead the top by first closing the top and then pushing in and out on it between the bows. I have tried with good luck the Meguires top formula for windows it has a two step cleaner and polish for a clear plastic window.
Good Luck
Ernie

First Place AACA Show Winner 350SL July 2003
I love low mile Mercedes.
First Place AACA Show winner for 2004 280SL
1969 280 4spd Papyrus White

[Douglas]

I believe the rear window of a 280 SL soft top is supposed to be able to stay folded in the "up" position. The fact that so many do not is a funciton of wear & tear and not the original intent of its design.

[TR]

quote:Originally posted by Dick M

I have wrestled with my soft top many times.  Each time I learn a little  more.... I have a new top on the shelf and when I finally feel that I can adjust and store the top without damaging it, I'll put it on...maybe.

Dick M
1970 280SL

Dick -- Question: Does your new soft top have a water proofing barrier sandwiched between a top fabric & a bottom fabric?  I'm trying to describe a 3-ply material here, and I'm asking because my top does not have this.  I'm uncertain if mine is typical or not, but it is just a simple single-ply canvas type material.  I bought it some years ago from a highly reputable source, which I've seen recommended several times on this board.  But my single-ply fabric now leaks like a sieve if not periodically treated with a waterproofing material (e.g., Scotch Guard).  Note that it does have the usual interior lining piece, but it does nothing to stop that pesky problem of water seep through.

My interior guy (Andrew, whom you've met) showed me some sample material that appeared to have the look of our soft tops, but it is in fact a modern 3-ply material, with a thin rubber-like water barrier sandwiched between a top & bottom fabric.  Very thin stuff too, which he believes will fold up into the stowage compartment.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

[Dick M]

Tom..
I had to go out to the garage and then the web to see what I have..no 3 ply on either top. As you know I don't drive in the rain so have not tested the top

New top is by Robbins in Sana Monica... They discribe the top as:

**SG-ROBBINS® SUN-FAST "G"® CLOTH with German Style Dobby Backing.
Robbins® Sun-fast "G" Cloth is manufactured by Lucerne Textiles using Glen Raven 100% Acrylic TWILL Weave surface cloth in Black, Blue and Brown shades; and a standard weave for our other colors. Our Sun-Fast "G"Cloth is made by laminating the surface cloth using the same superior rubber formulation we use in our Sun-Fast cloth to black or tan German style pre-shrunk cotton dobby backing. Sun-Fast "G" cloth offers a rich appearance,especially in the Black, Blue and Brown twill weave shades; coupled with strength and tightly controlled stretch characteristics to insure that tops do not sag or billow, or are so stiff that tops become difficult to raise and lower. Products ordered in Robbins® Sun-Fast "G" will offer a rich appearance and many years of service if cared for properly.


Dick M
1970 280SL

[J. Huber]

I believe I have that very top. I know its a Sunfast-G from Robbins. When I bought it ('94 already! wow...) the shop told me it was the better end. It has held up very well -- EXCEPT, sadly I suffered the chewed up corner syndrome... This is more a result of the frame-folding & topwell troubles, than the top itself.

James
63 230SL

[TR]

Dick -- Thanks very much for checking and getting back to me with that info...greatly appreciated.  I'd been wondering if my "highest quality" soft top kit was maybe the only one without that sandwiched water barrier.  But my hunch had been that most (all?) of the W113 soft tops out there are of the variety we both seem to have; meaning without that barrier.

You may remember seeing the soft top on my car, it's like new (should be, it's only been up & down maybe a dozen times).  But when we once got caught in a monsoon-like rain my wife was not amused when the water began to seep thru and it became like a rain forest inside the car.  Now I carry along a roll of 9x12' plastic sheeting as a backup in the event something like that happens again.

I'm guessing the seep-thru problem may have come from washing which removed a waterproofing coating.  I've since treated it with a heavy-duty waterproofing spray (for tent canvas), however, my thought is at some point to replace the soft top using a modern multi-ply material so as to permanently get away from the possibility of a seep-thru problem.  Using the CLK500 cabriolet's multi-ply soft top as an example we're also thinking about inserting a thin (and attractive) fabric piece that will stretch and create an air space between the inside of the top and the driver/passenger.  Such an arrangement is simple and works amazingly well when it comes to keeping things cool when it's over 100 degrees and with the sun is beating down on the soft top.  If & when we do this Andrew (my Minister of the Interior) will probably just do it from scratch; no kit.

(P.S.  You've not seen the hardtop, but when we were doing a rebuild on it (following Gernold's instructions) I had Andrew do the headliner in a matching suede material.  And to be sure we could go back to the original perforated vinyl we bought a new one and stored it away for safe keeping.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced