Author Topic: Swage lines  (Read 8853 times)

stickandrudderman

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Swage lines
« on: November 28, 2017, 12:35:08 »
I have recently procured a holy grail item.
it is the original Mercedes jig for preparing the headlamp apertures....



mbzse

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 15:50:41 »
Quote from: stickandrudderman
.../...the original Mercedes jig.../...
Great stuff, Colin  :)

As discussed before, the procedure in M-B repair workshops back in the day was to mount two of these devices on a factory original SL.
Then, join both sides firmly with a beam, screwed on.
With this setup (jig), you can mount (weld) new front wings (fenders) onto a W113 body shell, and have these ending up perfectly aligned.
Pity so much of these factory jigs and tools have been destroyed. Tales of container after container going straight to the scrap foundry here in Stockholm...
 M-B did not allow these items to find their way into independent workshops or private hands...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 21:11:04 by mbzse »
/Hans S

Benz Dr.

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 16:11:15 »
Would make Miss Piggy giggle like a school girl.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Pawel66

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 19:27:20 »
Hans, what do you mean "new front wings"?

This is very interesting.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

mbzse

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 23:09:36 »
Hans, what do you mean "new front wings"?
I mean when the front fenders on Pagoda cars are cut off and replaced, as restoration work is performed, the new fenders are in some instances welded on askew. When you look at such a car from the front, the headlights are at a (wrong ) angle, even a different angle left vs. right...
Also, the distance between the headlight units may be too wide or narrow
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 23:55:10 by mbzse »
/Hans S

Pawel66

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 10:49:06 »
Got you, thank you! Did not know fenders can be called wings sometimes.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

JamesL

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2017, 11:06:24 »
Pawel, we need a glossary...

Nice to see my car being used a test mule for Sticks new toy!
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

Tyler S

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2017, 14:51:06 »
In the photo, it looks like there are 3 distinct tooling marks that would line up with the fender notches. Does this tool have that on both sides or is this a side specific tool. Meaning you would need 2 that mirror each other. If not ot would be great if this could be moulded and an epoxy copy made.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

Iconic

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2017, 15:16:56 »
Stick,
Great find !
Thanks for showing it, I have not seen one.
Mark
1970 280 SL Automatic, USA version, Grey-Blue (906G/906G), Blue leather (245)
1968 SS396 Camaro Convertible (owned since 1977 -- my first car :D)
1984 Porsche Euro Carrera coupe, LSD, SlateBlueMet/Blue
1998 BMW M-Rdstr Estoril Blue
1970 280 SL Automatic, Anthracite Grey-173G, Red Interior-132 - sold

Chris_ATL

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 19:06:54 »
Pawel,

Hemmings have a good translator between real English and american english :-)

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2014/03/12/a-conversion-guide-to-british-auto-terminology/



Pawel66

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 20:52:59 »
Cool, thank you!
What they teach you in school is just muffler and bonnet and then harbour and flavour  :P

In some schools they would tell you that the English and the Americans have everything in common except language.

I like the crocodile clip and an alligator clip.  :)

Not sure if Mercedes would have agreed with station wagon and a shooting brake being the same  ::)
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Benz Dr.

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 23:47:13 »
It does look like a pig's snout which is where my Miss Piggy reference came from.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

BLTZKRG

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2018, 10:54:52 »
'Station wagon and shooting break' Neither are correct. The proper term for such is an 'Estate Car' The body style was developed for a certain English King (who abdicated the throne)
One of his great passions was shooting on his lands, know as ' Royal Estates'  the body style was developed so that he could walk behind the car, having his shotguns laid out on the rear shelf, he would merely have to reach in and pick up a weapon, a loader would sit in the back and reload as he used them.
 Being an Englishman and an Estate fanatic, I have an E63 Estate car here and an E60 estate I keep in England, I am rather partial to the term 'Estate Car'
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 10:59:18 by BLTZKRG »

Pawel66

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2018, 11:02:43 »
Thank you for the background of the car type name - nice learning!
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

mdsalemi

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2018, 14:20:09 »
As usual, technical etymology isn't exactly the same as practical, and there are differences between countries.
We in the USA do not have, and never did, "Estate" cars. Until crossovers and SUVs became popular, they were "station wagons" and the derivation of that name is for a utility vehicle to carry passengers and their gear to and from the train station.

In the movie "White Christmas" (1954, Bing Crosby, Danny Kaye, Rosemary Clooney) there is a true "station wagon" in its original form and usage. See the attached still. The General used it to bring guests from the train station to his hotel in Vermont.

Growing up on Long Island in New York in the 1960s, many families had only one car. When they got a second car it was often called a "Station Car"; that is, a beater used to ferry dad to and from the LIRR station. Mom kept the good car at home. Many of my neighbors had them, and they were all called Station Cars. Perhaps just a NY thing.

Today, I drive a station wagon in the true sense, a Ford Flex. However, over the years, the term "station wagon" has for some reason become toxic and no automotive manufacturer would ever consider using it. That doesn't alter the fact that it is exactly what it is. For those that don't know, the Flex was derived from the Taurus X which was the renamed from the Freestyle; these were introduced once Ford dropped the Taurus [station] wagon because, well, nobody calls anything a station wagon today. They are on the Taurus platform. See that note on toxic. My Flex differs little in overall structure from the 1960 Dodge Pioneer Station Wagon we had as a family when I grew up. A front seat, a back seat bench, and a cargo area of ample size with a third row seat. Add all the A, B, and C and D pillars, the basic building blocks are the same.

While the origins of "Estate Car" and "Shooting Brake" are well known, today a shooting brake generally refers to a sleek, low 2-door wagon. Most Estate Cars or Station Wagons have 4 doors. Shooting brakes are very popular cars in the automotive press, since they are sleek, they have 2 doors and coupe-like line. Long and lean and stylish. Practical? Well, they wouldn't work for me. I think they get nice write ups but don't really fly out of the showrooms. My friend bought the Dodge Magnum version, albeit equipped with 4 doors instead of 2. It was a great deal since they had a hard time selling them. Nice car for the driver, not so nice in terms of cargo or passengers...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Pawel66

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2018, 16:44:13 »
Great piece of educatin again - thank you!
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Chris_ATL

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2018, 18:01:37 »
While i realize there is IP and MB wouldn't be happy, but it would not be hard to scan then and 3D print a copy, from a practical stand point. You could go cheap and do it in plastic, or even an aluminium extrusion...


mdsalemi

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2018, 16:56:17 »
While i realize there is IP and MB wouldn't be happy, but it would not be hard to scan then and 3D print a copy, from a practical stand point. You could go cheap and do it in plastic, or even an aluminium extrusion...

That would be a VERY easy piece to duplicate in low quantities. Very, very easy. Maybe not cheap, but easy.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

stickandrudderman

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2018, 16:56:32 »
It needs to be sufficiently hard so as to withstand use.

Benz Dr.

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2018, 18:50:57 »
It needs to be sufficiently hard so as to withstand use.


 ;) :D
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Tyler S

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2018, 03:39:21 »
Still didnt get my question answered. Is it side specific?
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

mdsalemi

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2018, 15:25:27 »
Still didnt get my question answered. Is it side specific?

Didn't see that question, Tyler, nor have I actually seen one of Stick's finds. However as the headlamps are not side specific, with a uniform mounting L + R, I would only guess that the jig is not either.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

waltklatt

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2018, 21:14:24 »
Tyler,
The jig is the same for both sides, same as the headlights and trims, they are interchangeable to either side.  Just have to adjust the light beam focus for left or right driving.
Hmm, SticknRudderMan, are there notches in the jig for the the infamous notches that are to be put onto the inner fender lines?
Thanks,
Walter

Tyler S

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2018, 01:31:34 »
Yes the headlights are interchangable. The reason i asked about the jig is because the headlight bucket lips (fender and grill side are different.)
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

VincentR

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Re: Swage lines
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2018, 08:14:01 »
Hello All,

Could you please confirm me that the jig reference is 113 589 01 93 00,
Would it be possible to get one drawing of it?
Thanks and have a nice day !
VincentR
Besançon/France
280 sl 1970