Lost my 230SL in Sunday Structure Fire - Need Advice

[ABikePeddler]

I don't even know where to start with this post... I'm just gutted. After attending the Radwood 2 car event in Aneheim this past Saturday and returning home around 6pm I stored one of my cars in my fathers empty garage.  8 1/2 hours later, at 2:30am, the garage, along with 5 of my vehicles were incinerated in the fire.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/36982701/man-caretaker-rescued-from-del-mar-house-fire

THANK GOD my father and his caretaker had only minor injuries and in the long view, that is all that matters. The garage was a detached affair so the main residence has only minor smoke damage and should be inhabitable in the next week or so.

I however am not fine. I am inconsolable. Devastated. I lost 5 vehicles including our 1965 Mercedes-Benz 230SL is no more. It is the same car I came home from the hospital in 50 years ago when I was brought into this world and to celebrate it's 50 years in our family I had Petrolicious do a story on the car and it's connection to our family.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-mercedes-benz-230sl-has-been-family-owned-for-50-years


Besides the 230SL I also lost a 1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 #1607 (located in the middle garage) that just completed restoration on November 13th and my beloved 375hp mid-engine RWD 1959 Austin Mini. The reason I am telling you all about this is two fold... 1) You W113 loving geeks are the only one's that can understand my pain. My friends and family have been great but they do not understand what it is like to bring a car back from the dead or to maintain and improve a vehicle. The only people that can understand are TRUE "car people" and anyone that knows how Bosch mechanical fuel injection works are TRUE, certified car people. This is really the only place to share the ceaseless pain I feel as well as to thank all of you for all your past help in keeping my SL running so beautifully. Without all of your assistance our SL would have never been the daily driver it was.  The car had about 5000 miles on it since going through a medium level restoration over the past few years.  And that brings me to the second reason I am posting this...

In preparation of dealing with the insurance company (Hagerty) over the vehicles value I wanted the opinion of this community of the cars value.  I have a set guaranteed value of $50k on the vehicle which seems about right for a two owner, California Black Plate 65' 230SL 4-speed manual car with Kinder seat option and hardtop.  Car was in excellent condition with all new interior, new top, new chrome and mechanically was 100% with new brakes, tires, and suspension (bushings/shocks).


So here is the low down on the car at the time of the fire. (Pardon if my tears ruin your keyboard..)

1965 Mercedes 230SL
Color: Grey White
Mileage: 188,000
Condition: 8.5 out of 10 (original engine and trans)

So I am looking for opinions on real street value. Here are some pictures.

[JamesL]

Oh that's terrible
Sure no-one was hurt but the car is also your family memories/history

Condolences

[Pawel66]

I just do not know what to write or to say... 
I am really, really sorry...

[Peter van Es]

Dear ABikePeddler,

(I would have typed your real name if I would know it).

I am very sorry for your loss. And I am also touched by the fact that you are looking for consolation and support from this group, one of the few internet forums where people know one another, and support one another, and welcome fellow members into their homes after just having met here on the internet. There are few places as supportive and as welcoming as the Pagoda SL Group is, in real life or on the internet.

Having looked at your pictures of the car, and your description, I think a $50K valuation is on the low side. Given the way prices are going, you should be looking at sales prices of similar specced cars in similar condition (which is hard to judge from photographs) but I'd expect a valuation between $75K-$90K.

I hope you get all this sorted out. I would have no idea about how to value a restored 1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 though. 

Stay strong!

Peter

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Dear Eric,

I too can’t find the words for your loss. Other then to say, you have the wonderful memories the “Little Mercedes” (as you and your famaly members referred to it) has provided you and your famaly members those past almost 50 years. It must be very hard on your dad that the car was lost in the way it did. Knowing it ended up to be your Moms car after your Dad found it nessesary to give it up due to the heavy LA traffic on his daily drives to and from work.

I hope you find another car similar to the “Little Mercedes” that you can one day pass on to your son.

As to your value question, I agree with Peter based upon your photographs and the article story in your post (the cars low mileage since restoration) I think you should be looking at a value of $75K to $90K However, I don’t know how the Insurance Company will see this since you had it insured for $50K (if I read that right). Perhaps make a personal contact with the insurance company and providing them with all bills you have from the restoration, hopefully they will provide you with a good and fair compensation.

Once again i’m very sorry for your loss, stay strong.

Warmest Regards,

Dieter

Note to our Pagoda World Editor, I like to recommend that we optain permission from Eric and the Magazine that published Eric’s car article (see second link to the magazine article in Eric’s post) if we can reprint the Article in one of our PW future magazines. And should this come to pass then present Eric with a copy of the magazine as a memory momentum. This is just a suggestion that came to mind as I read the article, I have no idea if it is possible.

[mdsalemi]

Sorry to say if you have a guaranteed value of $50K, that's it. Actual value is irrelevant; agreed value is what matters.
Sorry for your loss.

[ABikePeddler]

Thanks for the kind words to everyone. I am buoyed by the memories of this car.. it's smell.. it's idiosyncrasies and it's unwillingness to give up being a loyal family companion.  The car came into our family January 31st 1967, 87 days before I was born.  It won't be for another 84 days until I will officially be in our family longer. 

I think mdsalemi is probably correct in that the agreed upon value is the max limit but Dieter's suggestion to contact them with receipts showing recent work is worth a shot.  I had a $30,000 value on the car back in 2008 time line and then the market place moved upwards so a few years ago I bumper it to $40,000 and then $50,000 in 2015.  But the problem with a car like this is when people on the street say "How much is that car worth" I have to tell them the truth... "I have no idea because it is like one of my children.  And how do you put a value on your kids?".  I did not keep up with the marketplace because I was to busy DRIVING IT!  Enjoying it. I didn't care about how much it was worth, I only cared that the shifter bushings were in excellent condition or that there was no rust under the trunks rubber floormat.  I treated the car like the sporty car it is pushing it hard through corners, hitting the apex and letting that sweet sounding straight six power out of the curve all the while sawing at the wheel like a made man.  The car was so buttoned down and fun the drive.  I took immense pride in the fact that the car looked fantastic but was driven as Mercedes-Benz intended.  It spent it's weekends at car shows, Starbucks runs with my wife and more often then not runs to Home Depot to pickup a bunch of smelly crap. I will miss it so much...

Bring-A-Trailer gives a pretty good rear-world valuation that averages around $42,000 for 230SL's in a condition a little less then mine where as Hagerty values the car a little north of the $50,000 level in the condition I had it which would be between #2 and #3 condition.  But if others feel those are incorrect I will do was Dieter suggested and try and persuade Hagerty to step up the value.   


Eric Charnholm
Del Mar, CA

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Eric, please do let us know how you make out.

Best of luck to you.

Dieter

[JamesL]

Any indication what started the fire?
Not that knowing brings the stuff back

[neelyrc]

Sorry to read about your tremendous loss Eric.  A very sad and costly experience indeed.  Wishing you the best of luck in your settlement with insurers for your vehicles and property.

[49er]

My heart goes out to you on your devistating loss of your beloved Pagoda. As a long time owner I can certainally empathize with you. I too, wish you good luck in your negotiations with the insurers.

John

[Rothko]

I am very sorry about your loss.  To have a vehicle in the family that long (basically a family heirloom) and then to lose it in such a way must be devastating.

Be sure to check the homeowner's policy as well as the Hagerty policy.  You might be able to double-tap the insurance on the property for the excess loss.

[Jonny B]

Eric so very, very sorry for your loss. Just glad your father is alright.

To forum members: I have had the opportunity to meet and get to know Eric here in the San Diego. I can speak first hand to his pride in his car, and the care that he gave it.

Very sad.

[scoot]

Sorry to say if you have a guaranteed value of $50K, that's it. Actual value is irrelevant; agreed value is what matters.

I would think that Michael is correct on this.  But it's probably a phone call to find out.  If there is anything that can be salvaged then maybe you can buy back the remains and send them to Bring a Trailer or something. 

I'm sorry for your loss and glad that people were not injured.

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi Eric,
I am so sorry to hear of your loss.
Regards
Chris
Cape Town

[Bonnyboy]

From what I have heard about Hagerty they seem to be up on their values and should recognize the value in the car.  I expect that your car was worth $65,000-75,000+ based on what you noted and taking into account the recent downturn in the Pagoda market.  If you can get your hands on a few of the recent Sports Car Market you could show them there are still some lower quality cars going for upper dollars (Hagerty would have those results as well). 

Its always worth a shot - just don't waiver on value - start with a value you can support and stay with it.   You are the expert and with receipts you may be able to help your adjuster make the right decision.

Sorry for your loss.

[thelews]

As Michael said, agreed value is just what it says.  There's no discussion.

[Mike Hughes]

It is heartbreaking to loose a prized family treasure in a fire like that.  Your father must be as devastated as you are by its loss.  Even though most modern homes seem to be designed to include the convenience of an attached garage, I have long been convinced that detached garages are a safer residential garaging option and I'm so glad that your father was spared the loss of his home. 

Whenever possible it is wise to install smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in a garage, even wiser to have such detectors rigged into a home's alarm system just like bedroom and kitchen detectors.  ADT recommended this to me a few years ago when we upgraded our home alarm system and our detached garage was so equipped shortly thereafter.  Smoke detectors included in a home alarm system will set it off, and in our area will alert local emergency services of the possibility of fire.

[ABikePeddler]

Thought I'd chime in and answer some questions. 

No idea yet what caused the fire yet.  A fire investigator for one of the Insurance companies was at the scene for an hour today and was unable to determine the cause but was able to determine the direction it took... sort of.  The fire ran north of 1500 degrees based on the melting of the glass and aluminum body panels of the Mercedes.  I know it is an inanimate object but the thought of it being in the heat of that crucible just adds to my sadness.   

Because my father is 91 and suffers from very poor short term memory he does not really remember the fire nor is he realizing the Mercedes and the rest of the vehicles are gone.  I am very grateful for this as the term "Ignorance is Bliss" is REALLY a good thing in this circumstance.  I'd prefer that the pain of this be my burden and mine alone.

The sprinkler, smoke and fire detector recommendation is very good advice indeed.  When this structure is rebuilt that will most certainly be the direction we go. It just makes me so sad that we will have a new garage with nothing to put in them.

I'm going to contact Hagerty and the rest of our Insurance reps (there are 8 of them on this incident) and have a discussion with them about what can or cannot be done to cover our loss as fully as possible.  I appreciate all the suggested values on the vehicle though.  That is what I really need.. data points.   It is very hard however to value a 4-speed, California Black Plate SL with matching number engine and trans and original hardtop that has been with the same owner for 50 years.  I mean, how do you put a number on that?  Even if I had it insured for a guaranteed value of $1,000,000 I'd still feel like I was just hit in the gut.  There is no correct number.  I just want to do right by the car... I want to fight for it because that is what you do for a family member.

[enriquegarcia]

Dear Eric and Fellow Pagoda friend,

So sorry to hear your sad story and heartbreaking to see the photos. Glad no one was hurt, but the loss of your beloved Pagoda must certainly be hard to bear. My sincere condolences and best wishes.

Enrique Garcia
'68 280SL

[smackYYZ]

Eric,

I can't imagine your pain from the loss. I do understand your connection to the car, my '66 230sl was my mom's and became mine with her passing last year. My siblings didn't want it, but to me it has great memories of her happily driving it and being so proud of her lack of power steering.

Hope your treated fair, and have success in rebuilding and refilling the garage.

Mike

[thelews]

you might build your next garage of concrete with concrete planks for the ceiling too.

[doitwright]

As others have stated, I too am saddened to see you had to experience every specialty car owners worst nightmare. Unlike a stolen vehicle where there is hope for recovery or an accident where repair is possible, a devestating fire such as yours has left nothing to work with.

On a more positive note, the fire cannot take away the history and experience you had with the car. The memories of your mother driving it, the resurrection process and the joy you had with the car will always remain.

Through your loss you may have saved someone else’s car if we have anything to learn from your heartbreaking experience. While all preventative measures cannot be implemented, a smoke detector and perhaps fire sprinkler system are something I will work on installing in my garage.

Dealing with insurance companies can be a strenuous experience but necessary. Keep us posted on how it goes. I wish you the best success possible.

[Brian in NL]

Eric,

Looking at the before and after pictures is truly painful. I'm so sorry. I can identify with your family attachment to the car. My 230SL has been in our family since 1970, which I was a 12-year-old in Southern California (Orange County). I used to wash it for my mom and during the Middle East oil embargo, when I was 16 and freshly licensed, I got to drive it to the local Exxon station and wait in line to fill it up. I'm 60 now and every time I get behind the wheel I think of my mom and how much fun she had in that car. It truly is a family heirloom. But as other have said, you still have the memories. Salvage a few pieces of it to keep and bring back the good memories.

I agree with Peter that 50K seems low for such a nice W113. Here in Europe, I have a classic-car policy that requires an updated professional appraisal every two years. I'm glad I have those done. The first one I had done three years ago valued it at €85,000. Two years later it came in at €135,000. The market seems to have softened a bit, and values generally are higher here in central Europe and particularly in Germany than they are in the USA. But I have seen several 230SLs not as nice as yours sell for more than $50K in U.S. auctions in the past year. You probably are stuck with the valuation, but it doesn't hurt to make your case.

Good luck. You have our sympathies.

Brian

[TheEngineer]

I read your story and saw the video. You must be totally devastated. I am so sorry and feel for you. Did they ever find out what started the fire? Did you know that oily rags in a pile can ignite themselves? There is an OSHA rule that requires such rags to be put into a metal box with a lid.
Hopefully, you don't have to go thru the troubles I have with GEICO about my loss. First, they investigated about insurance fraud. It took them a month to send an adjuster out. Then they said "They couldn't reach me". Then, my insurance should cover the loss. Then, "we understand that there isn't a Mercedes which would be covered-----" then, "we are continuing to review for a possible excess of property damage limit". I have paid out of my own pocket for a new wall behind my garage, a new garage door, for parts to repair my Prius and for the repair of the Mercedes with much more costs to come. GEICO is a real PITA 
Here is an update: On 01/16/'18 I received a check for the repairs to the garage door and the back wall. Actually very promptly, because I submitted my invoices on 12/19/'17 and 12/20/'17 considering the holidays. I have not yet billed the repairs on the 280SL and the Prius. I must say, it is very nice to have a garage door again to keep out the cold!