Throttle body butterfly axle cap?

[mrfatboy]

I have a 68 (69 registered) 280sl manual.  While cleaning the throttle body I notice that I might be missing the throttle body cap.

While researching the part I found this thread that suggests that the 280's did not have this part while the 230's,  and 250's manuals did.  Again,  this is for manuals only.  Autos had another device attached here.

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15857.0

Can anybody with a 69 280sl (or later) verify that the part is supposed to be there or not?

Below are two pictures.  One with the arrow pointing to the part is from a 250sl manual.  The other is my throttle body with no cap.

Also,  if I do need the part does anybody have the 3D printing file?  I also found the repro part on SLS but pricey. 

If my car never came with it then I don't have to worry about it😀

[neelyrc]

Can anybody with a 69 280sl (or later) verify that the part is supposed to be there or not?

Can't verify if supposed to be, but......Mine is without the cap: Jan 1969 build, VIN ...007749.

[TheEngineer]

From memory only, because my car is at the Metal Man: The automatic transmission has an electric sensor in that location. Because your car has a manual transmission the sensor is not fitted. I may be wrong.

[ja17]

Yes, I think some standards in later years, came without the cap.

[66andBlue]

In the the previous discussion about this part (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15857.0)
Pete Lesler wrote:
The 280's did not have this cover. only the 230 and 250.
I have an early  factory photo of a 280SL which clearly shows this cover is missing.  I challenged an owner of a 1969 280SL with manual trans at Legends of the Autobahn as his throttle housing was missing the coverr.  We researched it and have determined that it was left off the manual trans 280SL's.
Pete Lesler
W113SL

Why don't you send Pete a PM and ask whether he could post this factory photo here and any other sources they researched.

The p/n is 0001410019 but it shows up only in spare parts list for the M127 engine in 220SEb cars.

[mrfatboy]

Just an update:

After examining the screw holes where the cover plate is supposed to go on the throttle body there is NO threads inside the holes.  So it looks like nothing was ever screwed in them.  More evidence that my car never came with that cover plate?

I did received the 3D printing file for the part from Star63.  It sounds like I might need to make some modifications to it.  He said he wished it was a little bigger if he were to 3D print it again.

I am also waiting to hear back from Pete for any info regarding what years the 280sl had or did not have this cover plate.

Any body else with a 68-71 280sl manual that can chime in here if they have the cover plate or not?

[Pawel66]

Based on what EPC is saying, taking the part number provided by Alfred, A 0001410019:

- fitted only on 127.982 and 127.984 engines
- up to engine numbers in attachment

[66andBlue]

- fitted only on 127.982 and 127.984 engines

Pawel,
are you claiming the cover was NOT fitted on a manual transmission M127.981, that is, a 230SL engine? 

[Pawel66]

Alfred, I am passing on what EPC says and, indeed, that is what it says.

When you launch the search function and the part number above, you get what you see on the hit list 1 attachment. The 127.981 is not on the list.

If you want to check 127.981, you can go directly to it. With filters (just SA and model designation, no transmission filter) it shows this cover shadowed, meaning it is not part of this engine. If you remove the filters (SA, model) - you get the part number, but with the note as on hit list 2 attachment.

If you go to 113042 and then to engine - you get the same results - no part number regardless of transmission filter.

The EPC has its dark side, but it is usually connected with ease of use (missing parts on the pictures in old models), not with the information included. It is 99% correct. So if it says what it says - it is a strong signal it might be correct.

[mrfatboy]

Hmm.  This doesn't seem correct because a fellow member who has an original 250sl manual (see original picture with arrow in beginning post) has the cover plate.  So at least the 230's and 250's had the plate.

[Pawel66]

Look, I am not an EPC defender here, as I say - it has its dark sides. But they are rather because of difficulty to read it.

But I would be very careful about judging EPC is not correct because a friend of mine has a cover on his throttle body. Actually EPC is one of the key sources of information on what was fitted to which car. It is the electronic archives of Daimler-Benz, there is no other records than this and the paper booklets, that seem to be saying the same thing.

How can a cover get to the throttle housing:
1. Over the last 50 years there might have been a mechanic who, when he was supposed to give back the car to the owner saw this empty space and he thought he forgot to fit the cover - so he fitted it.
2. The mechanic said to an owner: "Look, someone left a hole here where in automatic there is a switch, I had one, so I screwed it on". The threads could have been there, as the throttle housing changed over time.
Or the owner looked at the throttle while picking the car from the shop and said: "Where the hell is my venturi shaft cover?" 
3. The throttle housing has a different number, but maybe it is similar enough that somebody installed or mixed the 982/984 one.
4. Maybe the only difference in these throttles is the threaded holes and presence of the cover? Then if the factory was short of the 981, they would install 982/984 throttle. 
5. The car you mentioned has the throttle replaced.
6. Somebody mixed the picture from the first post and it is not 250SL, but a 220SE standing next to it in the garage. 
...

There may be a 100 reasons why this cover happened to be there.

You say there are no threads in the holes for potential screws. That suggests something.

I usually take the EPC info as one of the most reliable sources of this type of info. Paper part booklets may be better sometimes. But as I read below Alfred says it "is in manuals for 220SEb only".

To me it is quite clear, actually, because of what EPC says: 230s and 250s did not have the plate by design. They might have gotten it by accident.

[66andBlue]

Look, I am not an EPC defender here, as I say - it has its dark sides. But they are rather because of difficulty to read it.

Pawel,
whether you are a defender of the EPC or a skeptic is not the point here.
You made a categorical statement that said that these covers were not on M127.981 based on your reading of information in the EPC. Others who might read this statement later - and may or may not have access to the EPC - could take this as absolute truth.
Given that we have seen photos of 230SL and 250SL manual transmission cars that have an original cover plate your categorical statement is simply wrong.
Of course, if I were a famous politician I would just label it "fake news". 🤣🤣
Bez obrazy!

[Pawel66]

Alfred, thank you! And certainly bez obrazy!

I did not realize I was making a statement - I passed on the EPC statement. I am far from making my statements like that - but I think it is ok to provide objective information from one of the key sources.

Then I saw we had just one example of a different situation, which sounds like exception to me. And a statement that EPC is wrong...

So my interpretation is: it was not installed as a rule, but can be found on some cars for all kinds of reasons. But it is just my view, nothing more.

The best documents are cars of our fellow members that are known to them since they were new or for many years. E.g. 49er's car (no cover, by the way  ).

[mrfatboy]

Here is  reference pic of another 250sl with the cap.

[enriquegarcia]

For what it is worth, my '68 280SL, euro-delivered, 4-speed manual, production no. 001264, does not have the cap.

[Montreal V8]

My late 1970 280SL did not have a cover, and the holes were not threaded. I made up a cover, threaded the holes, so it now looks a lot neater.

[66andBlue]

For reference: original 1964 230SL with cover.

[Tyler S]

Also take note the 250 had a different throttle body than the 280. The 250 had no coolant jacket within the throttle body. Only the single large breather hose. It is all possible the cap does not show up on the m129 parts book because in order to get it you would need to purchase the entire throttle body. N/A seperate. We have seen this before with other parts.

Also the part number for a 250 throttle body is the same regardless of transmission type (throttle switch). The 280 has notations re type. So the cap was likely omitted with the design change as you cant, wouldn't want to, screw a throttle switch to a manual trans throttle body (holes not threaded)