Author Topic: What gets silver Cad rather than yellow? (Read 17168 times)

johnk · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2018, 17:07:42 »

Thanks Mike! I am heading to Harbor Freight right now. I was procrastinating on the smaller stuff hoping something like this tumbler would work having read one of your previous posts.

johnk · « **Reply #26 on:** February 02, 2018, 17:57:09 »

Take a look at the attached which I pulled from the link ctaylor posted today. It makes is look like the rear caliper is bare cast iron painted black along with the differential assembly, which supports why my rear caliper seem to be a rusty black, much different than my fronts. The picture next to it could show a hint of yellow on the little bit you can see of the front calipers.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #27 on:** February 03, 2018, 19:49:26 »

Quote from: wwheeler on February 02, 2018, 15:51:26

Using a small tumbler, what sort of media would you use to avoid rounding off sharp corners like on hex nuts and such?

In a vibratory tumbler, it would be pretty hard to round off anything. The usual media is some version of walnut shells with a polish compound. But, for more aggressive you could try any number of fine abrasives. Somethings I've tumbled I've had in there for many days--it's a slow process.

Rotary is an entirely different issue...far faster...

Shvegel · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2018, 22:48:42 »

JohnK,
I tend to look at anything in sales literature with suspicion. In the link you provided if you look at the rear axle you will notice that the clamps for the center boot don't really stick out very much which means to me that the entire rear was probably painted grey to make it more photogenic. Also to the right of that picture there is a picture of a front suspension that appears to show a gold caliper.

Here is my go to photo from the assembly line during the period our cars were made. If you download it and blow it up it would appear the caliper is indeed gold.

Shvegel · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2018, 14:23:17 »

The BBB seems to agree.

johnk · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2018, 15:37:42 »

Thanks Pat. This is a great picture.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2018, 18:45:44 »

Shvegel, how can you tell from BBB that the caliper is yellow plated?

I am not challenging the point, just curious.

There was a long discussion on the forum about the colour of the calipers. I thought it was concluded they were natural metal colour. Yet now we say they were yellow plated... fine...

Tyler S · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2018, 19:50:11 »

Just a note on the fuel lines. It would be a good time to rebuild them with newer up to date ethanol resistant hoses. You can remove the old hoses from the fittings and hardline by cutting off the collet lengthwise. Get the hard-pipe cad plated and then take your old hoses (for length reference) to a hydraulic shop to replace the hose and re crimp new collets onto them. The collets/ferrels and crimping tool can also be purchased from Grainger if you want to do it yourself. Be sure to observe the correct "clocking" of the fittings on the hoses.

Shvegel · « **Reply #33 on:** February 11, 2018, 21:08:37 »

Pawell66, I posted the black and white photo from the BBB(Big Blue Book or Factory Mercedes Service manual) just to show the calipers were not painted black as in the sales brochure photo but you will also notice they appear to be lighter than bare cast Iron. The color photo of the assembly line as well as the small photo of the front suspension from the sales brochure sure looks like a gold caliper to me. Alfred's (66andblue who has owned his car since new) photo which looks fairly vintage shows a Gold caliper and black oxide bolts. Besides all that all Ate calipers of the period used by the other manufacturers (Volvo, BMW, Porsche, Saab) were gold Zinc or Cad. All of that said Mine are going to be gold but the judging standard for Mercedes events is as the car left the factory or whatever Mercedes is supplying today. Modern Ate calipers are supplied in plain Zinc plating so that would be correct too.

From an ideological standpoint raw Cast Iron just wouldn't make any sense to me as Mercedes finished or painted everything under the car that was not cast Aluminum and then sprayed the entire bottom of the car from end to end with Waxoil or Cosmoline to further keep it from corroding. Why would they take something that was potentially visable and suceptable to internal corrosion and leave it bare so it turns into a blob of rust? That just isn't the Mercedes way.

Here is a good overview from PMB brake who are the rebuilders of choice for Porsche calipers.
http://www.pmbperformance.com/calipers.html

Pawel66 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 11, 2018, 21:45:34 »

Ok, thank you!

Again, not challenging anything, just wanted the knowledge.

Saying "natural color" was simplification - I meant they had to be coated with something that looked in color similar to natural cast metal. Sure they could not have been left uncoated.

So yellow plated. Pity I did not know it 5 years ago when mine were done. Truth is also, probably, that after a couple of years they went greyish...

Shvegel · « **Reply #35 on:** February 11, 2018, 22:15:51 »

I didn't view you question as an attack. Far from it. We have to question each other if we are to ever move forward in our collective knowledge. Nothing holds up on calipers because it is such a harsh enviroment and I am pretty sure the judges at a Mercedes event are not supposed to look under the car anyway. At the end of the day we spend time and energy on trying to figure out which coating to apply only to watch it wear off in minutes.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 11, 2018, 22:23:00 »

Quote from: Shvegel on February 11, 2018, 22:15:51

At the end of the day we spend time and energy on trying to figure out which coating to apply only to watch it wear off in minutes.

True!

johnk · « **Reply #37 on:** February 12, 2018, 03:05:32 »

Tyler,
I was trying to avoid bending new brake lines but your are right. I need to take the time to make up new lines. I even have the flaring tool.
Thanks
Johnk

doitwright · « **Reply #38 on:** February 12, 2018, 07:40:58 »

As mentioned in a previous response on this topic. PMB Performance restores ATE brake calipers. Their claim is that all ATE calipers were originally yellow Zinc plated. Their videos show the restoration process including black zinc plating the bolts for the caliper halves and replacing the small flat rubber washer. When I saw they rebuild the brake pressure balancer for Porsche 914's I remembered that the 914 balancer looked very similar to the one in my 280SL. PMB Performance restored my brake pressure balancer including plating and painting.

mercakungen · « **Reply #39 on:** February 12, 2018, 08:06:22 »

Motoring Investments "Holy Grail" has black calipers as mine had too. Here´s a photo of my calipers after the black paint has been removed. The calipers are yellow.
The master cylinder and the booster has been replaced so I´m not sure if these calipers are originals.

Shvegel · « **Reply #40 on:** February 12, 2018, 09:40:36 »

mercakungen,
There is still a world of things we have not explored. The tough part is that our cars are now about 50 years old and it seems rather unlikely that at sometime someone didn't replace the calipers. I went back and looked at the "Holy Grail" again and you are correct the calipers are painted black which means they were either painted that way from the factory or were touched up later in life. Again we don't know it they are the originals. it could even be something as oddball as when the alloy wheels were added as an option (1969?) that they were having customers complain about the calipers were looking bad as you could see them through the wheels. Maybe at that point they decided to paint black over the gold Zinc or Cad? It is definately one of the more intersting finish questions on the car. I wish whomever bought the 18,000 mile 280Sl at Goodings auction at Pebble Beach in 2016 was known to us. Eventually someone will put the time and effort into finding these cars and documenting them for the restorers of the future.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #41 on:** February 12, 2018, 14:37:43 »

Rather than GUESS at what may be, might have been--why doesn't one of our European and or German-speaking members investigate this?

ATE has a Classic Division, just like Bosch has a Classic Division and MB has the Classic Center.

http://www.ate-brakes.com/products/ate-classic/

by e-mail: ate-classic@continental-corporation.com
Hotline: 01805-221242

It may take several phone calls, and a bit of investigation...but I'm sure an answer can be found.

doitwright · « **Reply #42 on:** February 12, 2018, 21:33:47 »

Most of the remanufactured calipers I have seen are painted black. When I restored my calipers, the 2 rears had remnants of black paint. When I wire wheeled the calipers there was no evidence of zinc plating under the paint. There was no paint on the fronts but mainly silver plating with a slight tint of gold. I am not the original owner.

johnk · « **Reply #43 on:** February 13, 2018, 03:57:38 »

Mine is the same as your doitwright. Black rears with slight rust and no sign of plating to keep it from rusting. fronts are silver with with no rust.

Shvegel · « **Reply #44 on:** February 13, 2018, 10:17:17 »

I sent an email to the Classic Center in California asking if they have any documentation regarding the finish on the calipers. I will let you know if they reply.

hkollan · « **Reply #45 on:** February 13, 2018, 11:01:55 »

For the last almost 40 years, every new ATE caliper that i saw coming out of a blue ATE box was zincplated.
Even most other rebuilt ones from companies specializing in rebuilding calipers
here in Europe such as Budweg, NK and others came with the same finish.

Hans

Shvegel · « **Reply #46 on:** February 13, 2018, 13:10:00 »

Hans,
I agree completly. However we have a few low mileage cars in the US that have black painted calipers. They seem to be later cars like 1969 and later. I can totally see if a car has alloy wheels where the caliper is visable that a mechanic or even the owner might paint them because they might look a little shabby but both Cars I have seen had full wheel covers where it is nearly impossible to see the calipers.

Shvegel · « **Reply #47 on:** February 13, 2018, 19:05:24 »

Just heard back from Tom Hanson at the Classic Center. His reply was "Gold zinc, never black."

Pawel66 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 13, 2018, 20:29:35 »

Well, not exactly what I was hoping for...
Anybody else?
Maybe we just "do not buy that"?

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #49 on:** February 14, 2018, 07:23:01 »

Mine were definitely yellow with black bolts and thats what I did again. The colour has faded a bit just from being in storage so I cant imagine they would have looked fresh for very long in normal day to day use.

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Author Topic: What gets silver Cad rather than yellow? (Read 17168 times)