Author Topic: repair or replace dash wood / center console box  (Read 10798 times)

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« on: February 09, 2018, 15:49:53 »
hi
so as part of my interior restoration in the next few months  i need to make a decision on what do to with the interior wood.

the wood in my car is original and will need to be stripped and restored.   there are areas where they veneer is missing and the base wood is gone.

madera concepts in CA estimated 1K to repair the wood.

I have found complete sets at various resellers staring at $500 and up.   

honestly i am leaning toward the $500 set vs 1K to restore the original.

thoughts?
Matt
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

doitwright

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, IL, Willowbrook
  • Posts: 652
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2018, 16:05:47 »
The veneer on the original trim is very thin and the plywood below is prone to delaminating. I will be giving my trim to a local furniture restorer to provide a quote. I could probably do it myself but I would rather work on other things.

Most of the replacements I have seen look nice but I have not seen a set with matching grain and color and they do not include the wood around the rear window on the hardtop.

If you can find a set that looks correct, I would spend the $500 difference on something else.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2018, 16:14:28 »
I just relaminated my dash bows. They came out great👍  $15 for the veneer. $15 for high strength contact cement.

The process is straight forward but takes patience to do it correctly and have it look nice.

PM for more details.
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

doitwright

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, IL, Willowbrook
  • Posts: 652
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2018, 16:30:12 »
Mrfatboy,

Did you use a Walnut or cherry veneer? Did you top coat the wood? What did you use?  How many coats?
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2018, 16:56:28 »
I used a Sapele wood veneer based on a recommendation from 66andblue.  He used same from same store.  The grain pattern and color matched more than the walnut or cherry veneers.

The entire wood bow and veneer was covered with contact cement first then applied to top of bow.

Trimming the veneer was tricky around all of the compound curves. But I found that if I trimmed and stuck the veneer on about 1/4" at a time the veneer would "give" more and wrap around the curves.  Wetting the localized area with water wet finger helped in bending veneer.

I then used minwax "special walnut" to stain to match my original wood.

7 coats of minwax spar urethane satin. The final finish was smooth but not glass smooth. You could just barely feel the grain.

1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2018, 17:09:21 »
As mrfatboy typed, Sapele wood can be stained and varnished quite well to match and the paper-backed veneer is flexible enough to wrap around the curves. I have done two thus far ... second turned out better than the first.  :)
There are different ways to cut veneer and match the strips together (https://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/library/reference-guides/grading-guide/veneer-cuts-and-matching/). You need to find one with long running grain patterns.

Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

doitwright

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, IL, Willowbrook
  • Posts: 652
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 19:23:42 »
I used a Sapele wood veneer based on a recommendation from 66andblue.  He used same from same store.  The grain pattern and color matched more than the walnut or cherry veneers.

The entire wood bow and veneer was covered with contact cement first then applied to top of bow.

Trimming the veneer was tricky around all of the compound curves. But I found that if I trimmed and stuck the veneer on about 1/4" at a time the veneer would "give" more and wrap around the curves.  Wetting the localized area with water wet finger helped in bending veneer.

I then used minwax "special walnut" to stain to match my original wood.

7 coats of minwax spar urethane satin. The final finish was smooth but not glass smooth. You could just barely feel the grain.

Did you take any pictures as you were doing the veneer work? How about pictures of the finished job? Did you have any issues with the veneer wanting to crack when glueing to the curved areas?
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 21:52:19 »
I took some pics but I wish I took more.  I will try to dig them up.  :-[  I was concentrating on the job itself :)  I was very nervous attempting it.

Since this was the first time I have done anything like this I had to create my own technique on the fly.

My dash bows were completely stripped of the first layer of veneer and coated with what looked like a spar varnish.  I assume this was the PO's attempt to fix already deteriorating wood and sand through over 25 years ago.  I don't think that it is necessary to strip the first layer buy rather make sure that everything is smoothed out of any dents or defects so it won't show through the veneer.


Here are the steps I took.

- Laid out dash bows on veneer keeping in mine the grain patterns.  You want try to make the patterns match on both bows

- Traced OVER SIZED out line of the bow and cut out.  I used about a 3" over sized outline.  For some reason it came in handy :)

- Roughed up existing bow finish

- Do one dash bow at a time for the following steps

- Applied High Heat good quality contact cement to both bow and veneer. Wait per contact cement instructions

- Applied the veneer to top of bow.  I did not role any curves or edges at this time. I only wanted the veneer to adhere to the top.  Made sure the veneer is evenly placed on bow so no air pockets appear.  Take special care to the top of the outside curves as not to "bridge" the raised profile.  You want the veneer to follow all of the top contours.

- Then trimmed down as much as I could MAKING sure that I left enough to wrap the edges

- The back side of the dash bows are easily trimmed so I did that first using a very sharp carpenters knife.  Change blades often.

CRITICAL PART

I found that to not have the veneer crack or at least greatly minimize it I used a wet finger and applied water to about an inch at time of the area being worked on(the bend). I then rolled over the veneer about 1/8" - 1/4" at a time (just enough that it does not crack) making the contact cement stick.  Immediately trim what you just did.  Roll, stick, trim, roll, stick, trim. Repeat.  TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!  The smaller movements you make will have better result. :)

Trimming as you go is CRITICAL as it relieves the stress on the veneer.  If you do not do it you surely will have cracks. 

I tried using a steamer to soften the veneer but that didn't work.  Applying a little bit of water in the work area worked best for me.

I think I was about 99% crack free and was even able to use 1000 grit sand paper and fix any that appeared.  I was extremely impressed how they came out.  If I knew I could have done it 20 years ago I would have :)

- I then wrapped both bows tight with blue painters tape and left over night just to make sure everything stuck. I'm not sure if necessary, but it was insurance for me. :)

- Finish with stain of choice

- Apply 7+ coats Minwax spar urethane satin



From what I have read our options are:

1.  DIY for ~$50 (veneer, stain, urethane, contact cement)
2.  Buy aftermarket for $600
3.  Professionally refinished for $1200


1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

doitwright

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, IL, Willowbrook
  • Posts: 652
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 22:14:41 »
Excellent step by step write-up. The tip about trimming as you go should be very valuable.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 17:34:01 »
Just to add one other important aspect to mrfatboy's excellent write up. Do not use lumpy spray contact cement!
IMO, gel contact cement works best when using thin paper-backed veneer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeFzAPik_68

This website has lots of good information and many useful tips on woodworking and veneering:
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/backed-veneer.htm


Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2018, 19:21:57 »
mrfatboy

what would you use to repair the wood substrate?


I have one end that the veneer is missing and some of the base wood is chipped.

Thank you - Matt
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 19:29:36 »
matt,

Can you post a picture? I would think there are many products/ways to fix the substrate but a picture is worth a thousand words :)  Plus I bet there are better wood workers here on the forum that might have better solutions than what I might suggest.  The more eyes the better :)
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

mrtzmd

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • *
  • USA, CA, OCEANSIDE
  • Posts: 42
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2018, 06:32:16 »
Excellent write up Mrfatboy. Will come in handy when I get to mine. Perhaps I can salvage mine which I think are unsalvagable due to missing stud and broken tip on the bows.
Mauricio

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2018, 12:52:11 »
mrfatboy
hi
photo attached,   this is really the only area of concern     

it is the drivers side bow, end that butts up against the windshield gasket (left side)
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2018, 13:08:30 »
I would think that would be easily repairable. I have not tried this product  but it looks like it would do the trick.  I'm sure they sell it or similar at Home Depot, etc.

Just mold it around broken section.  Try to get as close to the shape you want and sand the rest.  The new veneer should cover it nicely.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NJDAJY/ref=asc_df_B002NJDAJY5452242/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B002NJDAJY&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198106262049&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13392995104234875964&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031350&hvtargid=pla-348858713460


1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

Bonnyboy

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • Canada, BC, North Vancouver
  • Posts: 912
  • 1969 280sl Euro 4sp LSD
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2018, 13:30:00 »
The JB Weld works great.  Before you apply that though there is a watery substance you can paint on the wood and it hardens it - I don't know what it is called but a lumber yard should have it (there are a few different names) - I'm using it to rescue a couple rotted out window sills in a beach cottage I am resurrecting right now.  After you let that stuff harden the wood make sure its glued together so there is no flexing of different layers of material when you apply the JB weld.   
Ian
69 280SL
65 F-100
73 CB750K
75 MGB
78 FLH
82 CB750SC
83 VF 1100C
94 FLHTCU
08 NPS50
12 Pro 4X

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2018, 19:31:21 »
hello
so I have picked up my supplies for this project  (veneer, contact cement, stain)  and have started removing the veneer from the wood set.

2 questoins

1. most of the old  veneer is easily removed.  any tips on removing  the old veneer that is still well adhered to the wood?
2. what is the best way to approach the speaker cover?   i am not sure if it can be dis assembled or if  i just need to work with it very carefully.

thanks again
matt
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2018, 10:20:55 »
In my situation the PO had already removed the top layer veneer. I don't know how he did it.  Gently sanding? Heat gun?

My speaker grille was in good shape so I didn't have to veneer. I just chemically stripped the old varnish and stained and clear coated to match.

I have seen people remove the speaker grille pieces and veneer just the base but I have no experience with that.  I would advise caution though. Very delicate.

Posting more pictures might help.
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2018, 18:26:24 »
hi
speaker grille photo attached

all 4 pcs of my wood needs to be refurbished.  most of the veneer peels off easily. some does not.

sending this stuff out is looking more attractive
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

mrfatboy

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Rancho Santa Fe
  • Posts: 1339
    • Mrfatboy
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2018, 19:06:38 »
As you said, it looks like you will need to gently wiggle each slat out of the grill.   Some how the glue must be softened. Once done, chemically stripped each slat and stained.

Once the slats are removed from the base the old veneer should be relatively easy to removed. 

It will be labor intensive but doable.  I have seen it done. I guess you just have to determine how much your time is worth😁
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2018, 19:28:07 »
hi
looks like mineral spirits will loosen the glue.  I almost have all of the speaker grille slats out!
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

mrtzmd

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • *
  • USA, CA, OCEANSIDE
  • Posts: 42
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2018, 23:36:03 »
Excellent thread! I'm not even close to working on my interior but this topic inspires me to rescue the wood on my dash as it is very rough shape. Thank you mrfb and 66blue for sharing your experience and the links to the products.

specracer

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • USA, MA, Duxbury
  • Posts: 245
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2018, 00:11:28 »
I would think some fiberglass resin would do a great job stabilizing the loose and delaminating sub-straight

Before you apply that though there is a watery substance you can paint on the wood and it hardens it

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: repair or replace dash wood / center console box
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2018, 15:00:44 »
hi
i used the JB weld wood repair on 3 areas thus far.  no issues with it hardening so i can sand the area.

once i get all of the parts prepped  i think the fun really starts.  (applying veneer etc)
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230