230 or 250 sl

[roy]

     
      Greetings from an old newbie in Canada. I need help determining the model of my 1967 sl convertible. A little history first. It's a European model
      purchased by a U.S. buyer some time after it's delivery in Europe. It was later imported into Canada as a 250 sl [I have import documents]. The
      motor is a 2.5 ltr. 250 model [m129.11] and the insignia on the trunk is 250 sl. Now the problem. The tag on the firewall indicates the chassis is
      a 230 model--chassis code 113042. Did the 250 use the same chassis as the 230 ? Are there other indicators that would identify the model ? Any
      help would be greatly appreciated as I will soon be taking offers on the car. This vehicle now listed in for sale section on this site. Check it out!
               Thanks-----Roy
   

[Garry]

Roy it looks like you may have a 230sl that a past owner has put a 250 motor in and changed the rear trunk designation.
The best way to determine  exactly what you have would be to get the Data Card from Mercedes Classic Centre in Irvine CA. You will need to provide rhem with its vin number and some proof of ownership.
That way you will have all the details of what it was when it came out of the Factory.
 Garry

[cabrioletturbo]

If I can rely on my eagle eye, you have 230SL. judging by the shape of vent louvers, rubber mats, mirrors, rims/hubcaps and few other small give-aways...
Gary is right, the ultimate call comes from Classic centre in form of data card.

Do yourself a favour - if you have not done already - compare your ownership chassis number with the stamp on the frame arm, ensure it is the same.

[Benz Dr.]

I'm not 100% sure about this but I think the factory may of replaced faulty 230SL short blocks with 250SE units. After seeing several late 230SL's with this configuration I really am wondering about this. My own car, a '66 230SL, had a 250SE engine installed when I bought it in 1993 and rather than being upset about this, I was actually quite happy.

[thelews]

Drum or disc brakes on the rear?

What's with that gearshift?

[roy]

     
       I'll take your advice Garry and contact the Mercedes Classic Centre in Irvine Ca. They are closed today [Wednesday in Canada ]. Will let you know how
       I make out .
       Roy

[waltklatt]

Roy,
You can also get the number of the block and see which one you have.
M127 would be a 230
M129 would be a 250
M130 would be a 280
Usually the first 3 numbers on the block will tell you.

Another clue is the gearshift assembly, is from a later 70's Mercedes.
Original shifter would be a rubber gaiter on the carpet area and a long chrome stalk coming out with a black or white ball at the end.

Walter

[roy]

      Benz Dr.
         
           I'm happy too if it turns out to be a 230 with a 250 engine. Just trying to determine the model.
           Hey if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a-----?

[roy]

      Cabrioletturbo,
           
            Can you me where i'm looking for stamp on frame arm. Is the number stamped into the frame
            or is it a tag ?

[roy]

      Waltklatt,

          The engine is a 250 [m129.11 ].  Not sure about the shifter.

[cabrioletturbo]

When you lift up the hood, stand over mid passenger /right fender and look down between the air filter housing and subframe bushing housing (elipsoid). The number should be visible on either side of the frame seam. As frame arm descends from horizontal (where subrame mouting point is) and curves towards ground, the number is usually positioned on that slight curve down.

Not sure if I am explaining this clearly. Some one may provide a picture. Or Google w113 vin number i am sure you will get it.

[Mike Hughes]

Hi Roy -

Forgetting the engine for a moment, your original question was what model is your Pagoda.

113042 - 230SL
113043 - 250SL
113044 - 280SL

You mentioned the VIN plate on the firewall says 113042 so it is likely it is a 230SL.  To verify that this VIN plate is original to your car you can pop the hood and look at the frame rail on the intake/exhaust side of the engine as it curves down towards the air cleaner housing and right about where the large rubber intake hose joins the throttle body on the intake plenum.  There is a standing seam down the middle of the frame rail and the numbers will be found stamped inboard of the seam, possibly under a layer of engine compartment grime.  The numbers stamped in the frame rail should correspond to numbers on your VIN plate.  If so your duck is definitely a 230SL!

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/VIN

[Benz Dr.]

It sure looks like it's a 230SL to me. It could also be an early 250SL but the VIN doesn't tell me that.

[thelews]

I asked about the rear brakes.  250 SL went to disc on the rear.

[Mike Hughes]

I asked about the rear brakes.  250 SL went to disc on the rear.

Yes, that is a clear indicator:  230SLs were the only Pagodas produced with rear drum brakes.

[roy]

      Thelews,
     
            Thanks for your help. Arthritis has flared up,will answer your question soon as posible.

[roy]

   

     Garry,
          Mercedes Classic Center had to send VIN number to Germany.
          Will be a few days before I get an answer.

[Garry]

It will be very interesting to see what the answer is. 


My money is on a 230sl that has had a replacement engine and the past owner has changed the badge, I have seen it a couple of times here in Australia. 


Either way its still a Pagoda, just may have a different (and possible the better!!) engine in it.


Garry


Garry

[roy]

      thelews,

          Front brakes are disc, rear brakes are drum. Gotta be a 230 sl.
          Anyway good detective work.
             
                Thanks---Roy

[roy]

     

         Hi Garry,
              You were right on the money. Just received the data card from Germany.
              The car is a 230 finished on Oct. 14th 1964. so I don't have a 1967 250sl,
              I have a 1964 230 sl with a 250 [ m129.11 ] engine. I'm OK with that, at
              least I now know exactly what I have. The data card is all in German, maybe
              someone reading this post fluent in German can translate for me. Many
              thanks to everyone for their help. The Pagoda SL Group is the best!
                       Roy

[Garry]

Hi Roy,


Nice to know what you have.  I think a 250 engine in your car is not a bad thing.


You can have a read here in the Tech Manual on Data Cards and using this can decipher your card to see what it was when it left the factory including colours, options etc and also what country it was first delivered.


https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/DataCards


I always thought that the 230sl with the nicer chrome work and finer detail on the doors etc was the purest version of the Pagoda period. Welcome to the Club...


Garry

[thelews]

Hi Roy,



I always thought that the 230sl with the nicer chrome work and finer detail on the doors etc was the purest version of the Pagoda period. Welcome to the Club...


Garry

I agree, but matched with the 280 mechanicals in the early 250SL it's even better.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hi Roy,

If you open the link that Garry (his last post) included for you then scroll down you will find a table where someone correct=ctly translated all German description into English for all fields on the Data Card.

Best

Dieter

[Tyler S]

Is this car a manual or automatic?
It has a manual shifter but no clutch pedal!!

EDIT: Oops I didnt look close enough. It appears the pedal is stuck to the floor obscured by the brake pedal.

[roy]

     Hi Tyler,
           The car is manual 4spd transmission. I have just listed
           it under for sale section. Check it out!
                      Roy