very strange chassis number on a 230SL 1965

[DaveB]

The body plate doesn't have the full VIN unfortunately. And the hardtop is stamped with the body number not the chassis number. But it could still be useful, at least to check whether it matches the other body components. The hardtop number is under the horizontal member below the rear window. You'll need to remove the hardtop and set it upside down to see the number.

TheEngineer's suggestion of using the engine and transmission numbers to obtain the chassis number must be possible. Apparently, there are also unique numbers stamped into each rear axle, left front axle, and steering box. Of course, as you've noted, your engine and transmission are not matched, so at least one and possibly both are non-original. Some of the other stamped parts could have been replaced over the years (does the car have rear drums or discs?), but it's less likely that all would have been replaced. Cross-matching the numbers should be simple for Mercedes but, as Igor and George have said, perhaps not.

You haven't told us whether substituting 113042 into your current VIN (i.e 043049-xx-xxxxxx becomes 113042-xx-xxxxxx) gives a valid number. I'm sure you already explored this, didn't it help?

[DaveB]

I would be optimistic that, even if you're unable to determine the original VIN, you'll be able to somehow register with the new one.
(Of course I know nothing about Italian regulations )

[TheEngineer]

I looked at this page from Motoring Investment. All that he says is true, especially that it is most important to get a car with a straight body and no rust. It is nice if the numbers match but I found that on my car where the numbers should be 6854 the lid for the soft top is stamped 6834. This lid has never been painted, it is the original red color that measures 4 mil thick (0.1 mm) and has no clear coat; same as the hood for the fresh air intake in front of the windshield. Why anyone would re-paint the entire car very carefully, even with a clear coat, but not these two parts, I do not understand. I think many people with big plans buy a car like this, dream about restoring, anticipate big profit and give up half way. It reminds me of a card game called "Black Peter" where the cards are passed around and the person who gets stuck, at last, with the card showing the Black Peter, looses.

[George Des]

The Germans and most European countries are very fastidious in keeping records, especially on motor vehicles. I have Italian documents on my 230SL that go into excruciating detail describing the original owner of to car to the point of identifying who his children are. I have got to believe that the Mercedes Classic Center in Fellsbach has the wherewithall to do a reverse search of an engine, tranmission or other stanped body part to determine where it was originally installed and when. As I said, I tried in my case to have them trace a ZF with serial number 1675. They said they could not do it. ZF was able to tell me when it was produced and based on the serial number and another stamped number that the transmission was definitely destined for installation in a 230Sl. Apparebtly the ones that were installed in the 250/280SL while still S5-20s had some slight differences that were called by assigning different version numbers. I my case I have an -057 stamped above the normal ZF serial number.

[ricpang]

I answer to Dave B: No, I did'nt try to substitute 113 042 to the actual 143 049. Do you mean to go to Mercedes and ask for some spares giving this number that begins  with 113 042 10 and follows with the others eight digit that are in the actual chassis number?
Or maybe there is another way to verify ? Inserting  the number somewhere?

Yes, TheEngineer,  it is possible. Now I have taken the Black Peter but I really want to keep it
and don't want to give it to anybody. But it's also true that I have the car since ...ten days.

No answers yet from Mercedes neither from RDW (Dutch car register)
 but I trust they will arrive within the next week. Have a good w.e. and thanks for your support.

[DaveB]

Yes that's basically what I meant about the number. But there's no online lookup, nor would it help to ask for spares using the number. I recommend contacting Tom Hanson as The Engineer suggested. Describe your situation (maybe send him a link to this discussion), and ask if he can look up the 113042-xx-xxxxxx VIN and email you the data card corresponding to that car.
Note, if the last six numbers of your current VIN are not in the range 000000-19832 they're not original and Tom probably won't be able to help. Hopefully your local Mercedes and RDW will provide some useful information but I wouldn't count on it.

1400 trouble-free kilometres would have been a good bonding experience!

[ricpang]

It is what I'm gonna do right now.  Thanks a lot DaveB! Fortunately the last six numbers are in that range. I begin to see the light at the end od the tunnel. I'll let you know any news  but it will take time. Bye.

[ricpang]

DaveB, I have written to Tom Hanson. Now I need only to wait for his answer. I don't believe that linking the first digits to the last part of the chassis number could give some results as I have seen that a progressive number that is under 400 (like mine is) is referable to a 1963 car and my car,  being 1965 year,  should have a number  around 14000/15000. But let's see...

[DaveB]

Good luck! Tom is a good guy and I think he'll help if he can.
If the car was made in 1965 the last six numbers should be in the range 009025-014779 (see www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear)
As discussed by others, it seems the car's been assigned a new VIN after theft or an extensive professional rebuild early in its life. A new VIN might be assigned if, for example, front and rear clips from two written-off cars are assembled into a new car. I guess 043049 must have some meaning but perhaps only to the workshop that applied the new number or the jurisdiction where it was reregistered.

[neelyrc]

Hello Riccardo, it has been about two months since you drove your car from Holland to Florence.  At the end of May you were still wrestling with the VIN issue in order to complete registration here in Italy. Have you been able to resolve this issue yet? 

I hope you have been able to find a solution so that you can get on with the enjoyment of driving it.

[TheEngineer]

It has finally come to pass: there is a highly portable lie detector you can take with you when buying a car. I can see only one problem: it may always show that
that sellers are lying and your only remedy may be to pay with fake currency

[ricpang]

Hello Neelyrc,
unfortunately I am still in the same situation. I can't drive the car because in Italy it's impossible to make an insurance for a car with a Dutch plate and I can't have an Italian plate for the reasons concerning the not original  chassis number. I have had  a tight exchange with Tom Hanson MB Classic Center , a people of rare kindness and patience. It has been impossible to find the original chassis number. Now I don't know what to do. Yes, The Engineer, I should have bought  that lie detector but it is dangerous as it can backfire on me and detect my lies too. Goodbye to everybody.

[ricpang]

Hello to everybody, I 'm going to ask you again your help. Someone of you could tell me where I can find the axles numbers? The points on which the numbers are stamped? I have been looking for carefully but the only number I found (only on the left front  axle) is 31 but it looks a too short number. Isn't it? On the right front axle nothing at all. And on the rear axle neither. Only on the differential a strange number:
14. (point)81    A picture would help so much .
And one more question: the numbers that I see on the glasses of the windows and of the windshield can they contribute to the identification of the chassis number? uhm...it would be a too fine thing!
Thank you in advance.

[66andBlue]

....Only on the differential a strange number:
14. (point)81    A picture would help so much . ...

Here is a photo of stamp on a 1964 230SL (3/75) and in this thread you'll find more photos of the stamp on different rear axles:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=10523

Note that the ratio is sometimes shown as X/XX or as X,XX
Can you post a photo of stamp on your differential? Could it be 4.08?

[Tyler S]

The rear axle serial number is on the drivers side housing top. Have a look at the 5th page of this link for location schmatic.
https://www.kkmfg.com/113%20Catalog.pdf

[ricpang]

Thank you 66andBlue , the picture has clarified. Tomorrow I'll check on my differential. The link is useful but unfortunately they don't talk about front axles serial numbers, but only about rear axle numbers and gear ratio. Anyway it' s more than something! I am already halfway there!
And thank you Tyler S. for this good catalog. I didn't know it but now I understand that is a "must'. I downloaded it . I did'nt find, at page 5th, nothing about axle serial numbers and in all catalog neither. Anyway thank you , I liked the catalog, it can be precious. I am still looking for the location of the front axles serial numbers. Hope to succeed.

[Pawel66]

I downloaded it . I did'nt find, at page 5th, nothing about axle serial numbers and in all catalog neither. Anyway thank you ,

Well, you have locations of the serial numbers on particular car components on page 5 there. It is easier to look for them if you know where to look - sometimes you need a solid piece of cloth with some cleaner or a wire brush to find them - but you need to know where to look for them.

[66andBlue]

.... I have been looking for carefully but the only number I found (only on the left front  axle) is 31 but it looks a too short number. Isn't it? On the right front axle nothing at all. ...

You are correct, "31" is NOT the axle number. Look around the steering knuckles (or in German "Achschenkelbolzen") / kingpins for the number.

[ricpang]

Yes, I will do it, 66andBlue. Do you think I need to take off the wheel to look for front axle serial number?

[Cees Klumper]

Ricpang - are you sure about needing a certificate from MB for the Italian registration? I ask because NL and Italy are both EU which should be fairly easy to convert if you have proper Dutch paperwork, which you do. You could try with the changed chassis number and approach Mercedes for the certificate, who knows maybe they will give it.
When I imported my 280 SL from Switzerland (non-EU) into France in 2016, the French authorities also would accept a declaration from the French classic car club on the car, instead of the manufacturer's certificate. I requested that and recrived it, all I had to do (as I recall) was send a copy of the title and photos of the car and 50 euros, and they sent me the certificate. Maybe there is a similar alternative in Italy as well. Good luck. Your not so great alternative would be to sell the car in Holland again, and find another one. You might even make a profit...

[ricpang]

@ Cees Klumper: I have already tried with Mercedes. Nothing to do. It was Mercedes-Italy that asked to Mercedes-Stuttgart. I waited for two months only to know that it is impossible to have the document. But now I'm trying with a historical cars club. I will have to wait for "only" three months and after another month to make registration and revision of the car and finally  I will have the italian plate. Much simple! If you think that the car has everything Ok (also Dutch APK valid till 2020) But I can wait for. I have no alternative. Thank you for your message. I'll let you know how the thing has gone. Bye.

[ricpang]

Thank you to everybody: I found the rear axle serial number! Many difficulties to find the front axles numbers. Someone of you could tell me where they have stamped ? I looked for them in this site but
I diid'nt find anything that could help.

[ricpang]

I re-read my last post and I think the last sentence was bad. Please don't get me wrong. I love this site.It's really exhaustive like no other.

[Tyler S]

Location of front axle (kingpin) serial number.
Remove the wheel for a better view

[114015]

Strange ...


Here is where you can find the kingpin assembly numbers.
Those numbers should be indicated on your datacard as well.


Regards,
Achim