230 SL Pagoda

[swood1]

Hi Steve

 Sometimes I think is it worth having so much money tied up in it, but the Donor car being in need of a complete restoration, Europe was the cheapest place.

P

It's a hard one... these cars are worth a large amount of money when restored to a high level.  My stance is if you dont need the money for anything else then keep it.  I notice you keen to improve your other car to get to concourse but wont you then have two cars that you dont dare drive...... :O

[Paulo Versace]

Hi Walter

Thanks for your reply, you seem to know a lot about these cars.# and I feel very grateful you sharing your knowledge.

That was for the complete interior. I,m a Mechanical Engineer, and we produce a Range of Refrigeration equipment in Italy and I personally design Mortuaries. I,m told my car would ave left the factory with MB Tex. The Drivers and Passenger side are Vinyl Mat, No soundproofing was used. Carpets everywhere else in square twist. This would be the correct Spec.

I,m thinking I put it back to factory spec if I get it done... whats your view?

Paulo

[Paulo Versace]

Hi Steve

My aim is to get the 230 SL to as correct a spec as possible. Your knowledge is much appreciated here, please feel free to offer your advice. The aim is to use this car but have it in excellent order throughout

Paulo

[mbzse]

.../...I,m told my car would ave left the factory with MB Tex.../... I,m thinking I put it back to factory spec.../...

That is a noble intention, indeed!
It is very hard to find MB Tex (vinyl) today, that corresponds to the type/quality fitted from the factory.
Look closely at some original 230SL cars, both cars with leather and MB Tex.
Then look at a few re-furbished cars. Compare details, seams, the fit around corners etc.

If you want a specific colour, you may have to dye the vinyl to correspond to factory hue

[Paulo Versace]

Hi, Tom at Mercedes Classic centre seems to think that you will obtain it from gahh. They use them as well as they manufacture it to factory spec. I just want the car to be as correct as possible, with runs on the trunk lid bottom, and over spray underneath. These are flaws that were there when the cars were made

Paulo

[Pawel66]

P

It looks very nice indeed, did you buy your Interior as a kit, or did a Trimmer make them. There is a Trimmer near us in Cheshire and they manufacture to factory specification, not sure if I should buy a kit, or let him make everything. Thing is fitted they want 10,500.00 plus VAT

Paulo

It was not a kit, it was an upholsterer who did it. I heard lots of opinions and the fellow members, I am sure, have more experience here on various kit suppliers ups and downs. Seems to me for carpets - a kit may be ok, for leather or MB tex - not really.

I bought the materials from Hans Reinke through their Polish distributor who did the upholstery. Hans Reinke were said to be one of the most true colours per MB catalogue numbers, having leather not died in the back, as required for Mercedes and having the right perforation for seats tubes. No idea if it is all true, but I would like to believe so.

[Paulo Versace]

 Your car looks great, I must admit Pawel. Tom from the Mercedes Classic Centre in Irvine says if you can keep it MB Tex as that's what it left the factory with and rubber mats on Passenger and Drivers Footwells

Paulo

[Pawel66]

Paulo,

Thank you!
I will ask one of my colleagues from the club where he bought his MB-tex. His car is really very nicely done re-creating MBtex upholstery.

[Paulo Versace]

Hi P

That would be really good as I want it to be right. no use buying twice

Paulo

[Pawel66]

Paulo,

Did Tom tell you that? It is something for you: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=28083.0;topicseen

A friend of mine says he bought his MBTex: GermanAutoTops.com, contact was John Oghanesyan.

[Paulo Versace]

Hi P

Yes he did say that about the Rubber mats. The rear of the seats were always in the same carpet as the car. If I buy MB Tex covers what about the rear of the seats?

Paulo

[Pawel66]

Not have a lot of knowledge about early 230SL, but I think I read, to be confirmed, as it had rubber mats in the front, I think the back had carpets - so had the backs of the backrests.

[Paulo Versace]

Hi P


Yes it did as you say. My ;point here is that would the seat cover set come with the Carpet to match the rest of the car?. Not happy really to see the car is not correct and people doing the work to non factory specifications.

Paulo

[Mike Hughes]

I would think that seat cover sets would include all the upholstery on the seats, and the carpet sets would include all the carpet, including that on the back of the seats.

[Paulo Versace]

Hi Mike

So are we saying that once ordered the seat Covers would come with the Carpeting attached or does that fit separately. Or is a case of you send all the seats and Door Cards and they fit everything and send it back like Heritage do. Only thing is Heritage have a UK Restorer and in the UK you have to go through them.

Paulo

[Paulo Versace]

Mike

I noticed you also have a 230 SL 1966. Is it to factory spec. If so could I see the Interior please as this would help me a lot

Paulo

[Pawel66]

Hi Mike

So are we saying that once ordered the seat Covers would come with the Carpeting attached or does that fit separately. Or is a case of you send all the seats and Door Cards and they fit everything and send it back like Heritage do. Only thing is Heritage have a UK Restorer and in the UK you have to go through them.

Paulo

Paulo,

As Mike said: backrests back covers are part of carpet set. Cushion and backrests outer covers are part of leather/MB tex upholstery set.

[mbzse]

Depicted in your photos Paulo is a very nice black original interior. You intend to keep this, yes?

[Paulo Versace]

Hi P

That's very nice of you to clarify as most places just say order on line and its a minefield. I have e mailed the people you mentioned regarding the MB Tex so lets see what they say.

Regards
Paulo

[Pawel66]

Paulo,

Please triple check when you order what you will get.

Best would be if you ask here about recommendations for your choice from the forum - this forum, as collective, has seen it all!

Also bear in mind huge impact of duties, tax and shipment from the US. Well, it matters only if you order in Europe before Brexit  .

[Paulo Versace]

Hi P

Thank you for your words of wisdom. How do I ask other members for their advice as I want to get it right. There is a couple of good German Companies i,m told as well like www.sls-hh.de and 'KHM@cabrio.de

I hope I get it right

Regards
Paulo

[Mike Hughes]

My seats, door cards, kick panels, windshield post and dash coverings are original M-B Tex.  Only the carpet was replaced in 1989, so it has now been in the car longer than the original carpet, and I helped the original owner (who was 85 at the time!) with a great deal of the installation (and then tried to buy the car from him!).

If you are going through M-B Heritage in the U.K. they probably have their own people or approved vendors doing the work.  As strong as the collector vehicle community is in the U.K. there are many available choices for having work of all kinds performed on your Pagoda.  Even on this side of the pond we have been watching with interest and admiration as the concentration of Bichester Heritage collector vehicle services has evolved at the old aerodrome. There are a number of folks on this forum who live in the U.K. and can advise you better than I who to see (and to avoid!)

What I am saying is that one can order a seat kit, which will include all the upholstery to recover the seats.  Some leather seat kits will include enough material  to recover the door cards.  The carpet is not normally part of a seat kit - it is part of a carpet kit.  That way one is assured that all replacement carpet is the same weave, shade of color and quality.   

One can recover the seats without replacing the  carpet.  The carpet is actually fitted to a thin ply panel into which the oblong chrome seat vent grilles are also fitted and can be removed and replaced separately.  The carpeted panel is secured at the bottom of the seat back frame and slides out of the upholstered recess.  All that is needed is to remove the seats from the car to remove, re-carpet and replace the panel, which one would normally do anyway when re-carpeting the interior.  Be careful to avoid damaging the chrome surround when removing and replacing the oblong chrome seat vents.

You will be amazed at how many little pieces are included in the carpet kit!  The individual pieces in the carpet kit will come with bound edges where appropriate, and most carpet kits even include the bound carpet insert for the driveshaft tunnel tray.  The most fiddly bit of carpeting to fit is the large piece that runs from door post to door post around the back of the two-piece package shelf behind the seats.  The vinyl coverings for the corners below the chrome caps adjacent to the door openings where your shoulder harnesses attach are bound to the leading edges of this piece of carpet.  The speakers let into the back wall are not original and you may wish to delete them and seal the holes when re-carpeting your interior as you see fit.

I see your seats are leather and seem from the photos to be in pretty nice nick.  Unless there is damage not visible that is severe enough to be un-repairable you might consider refurbishing and retaining your upholstery and simply dealing with replacing the worn, faded carpet.  You'd be amazed at how a specialist can bring your seats back to life, and how well they will look with new carpeting.  The leather available today, good as it may be, does not hold a candle to what M-B used back in the day.  The modern tanning processes today are more environmentally friendly than the traditional processes from earlier eras.  The door cards should be leather covered if your leather seats were original to the car and, like the seats, can be rejuvenated.  If the door cards are water damaged, a good upholsterer can remove the leather, refurbish and reinstall it on new door cards.  Even the leather dash coverings can be refurbished in place.

[114015]

That was for the complete interior. [...] I,m told my car would ave left the factory with MB Tex. The Drivers and Passenger side are Vinyl Mat, No soundproofing was used. Carpets everywhere else in square twist. This would be the correct Spec.

I,m thinking I put it back to factory spec if I get it done... whats your view?

Very interesting discussion here.
I mostly agree with what Hans and Mike already mentioned.
If your car was delivered with MB-Tex, this should be indicated on the data card.
What does the field "Ausstattung" say?  116? Because that is what is supposed to be "black MB-Tex" on the 230 and 250 SL, which - by the way - have the same material of MB-Tex. Fine grain, so to speak!
Your colo(u)r code would be 116 = Kaviar (caviar), which is deep dark grey,  not black!

So, that's the first hurdle you would attempt changing any non-original material in your car like the seat covers now.
The today's available MB-Tex or MB-Tex replacement is much more coarse and will look like the 280 SL MB-Tex, which is clearly different from the 230/250 SL's MB-Tex. 
The earlier material is just unobtainium worldwide. You will not find it.

Either you would have to go with black ! (black not deep dark-grey) 280 MB-Tex, and the difference will be clearly visible, or you had to find some other sort of aftermarket (US-) vinyl that comes as close as possible to the original 230/250 MB-Tex !
Very hard!
I have never seen a material - aftermarket - that matches the original 230/250 MB-Tex !

2nd
Your (aftermarket ... or perhaps even factory-original) newer leather seat covers look great; so, if I were you I would not change them! Unless you can find a set of original left-over seat covers in 116 caviar from a donor restoration (Alfred here had a set a couple of years ago...).
So, my 2 cents: keep what you have.

As for the carpet, I am with the others. Kick it out and get a new carpet set of black (charcoal) square weave carpet from the usual suppliers here in Europe. Very good quality ... and comes very close to your original 1966 square weave carpet that is no longer with your car. Your stuff there is completely non-original.

If I were you (I am not) I would not buy the driver's/co-driver's floormats with the set but put original rubber mats back to the floorwells - which was the only original choice for 230/250ies back then.
If you dislike the view of the original rubber mats you can cover them with the typical coco-mats available back then or with another kind of mat.

Here is a pic of what the original 116 interior looked (a)like in your car.
The car is/was from Bob Waldman (Cascadia)
Enjoy![/size]

Best,
Achim
(interio(u)r aficionado)

[Pawel66]

Paulo,

I see you started getting a very good pieces of advise here - which is great.
I used KHM for 190SL, but again, others may have a different view and better sources in the UK.

[Paulo Versace]

Hi P

Yes its great having all these people with so much knowledge spend time passing it on.. its a very nice trait indeed

Regards
Paulo