The Curse of the Pagoda Doors

[Tomnistuff]

Hi, Walter,
In my Sept 23 post, I said that the small hole is not the problem, and that the screw is 4+ mm from the end if the slot.  i should have added, "when the handle is farthest aft, and the handle "stop boss" is hard up against the surface of the rear screw "boss" on the door frame.  All of this with or without the pads.  it is the same.  The inside surface of the rear screw "boss" stops the handle from moving aft.
Tom Kizer

[Pawel66]

Tom,

I did not work on fitting the handles, I was just doing tumblers. But what I think I would do, if I understand your issue correctly, I would:
1. Check the front handle bolt fit to its hole in case I would grind 2-3mm from this "sticking out" element of the handle to move the handle 2-3mm (or whatever you need) aft.

2. I would grind 2-3mm off of that "sticking out" piece

3. Check if I need to use a shorter screw that holds the handle from aft and screw it all together.

But that's just me - it can be a completely stupid solution. But I thought - hole, RTV... that does not sound right. And if anything nees to be played with or cut - this is the simplest piece and it can be undone via a shim.

[Tomnistuff]

Pawel66,
If it's stupid, that makes two of us.  I've attached another sketch with two sets of measurements to show the problem.
Black dimensions are the left door which is barely OK.  The red dimensions are the right door which has what I estimated as an eighth inch gap at the rear of the handle.

The measurements say the right door problem should be 2.3 mm, based on the barely OK left door dimensions.  I still see two solutions, ignoring, as being really really stupid, the possibility of reskinning and repainting the door.  I'm not going to take it to Pebble Beach - EVER!

Solution 1:  Fill the gap with black RTV, since my car is painted DB332 Dunkelblau, or almost blue-black.  Success might depend on the quality of the job done.  At least it's reversible.

Solution 2:  Grind off 2.5 mm of the door handle mounting boss surface.  There's plenty of clearance in the front hole slot.

There is a risk of a potential problem with solution 2.  Moving the door handle 2.5 mm aft will fix the hole but it will also move the handle's lock button shaft and its little bat-wing shaped lock-lever-limiter 2.5 mm aft, creating a misalignment with the lock/unlock lever on the latch assembly.  Potential lock function problems could (probably would) result.

The only risk-free (albeit potentially ugly) solution that I see is to "fill" the gap.  I think Black RTV will do the best job if I use a tiny shaped plastic blade to sculpt or squeegee the RTV into the gap after the handle and pads are installed.

If it doesn't work, I can always clean it up and start over.  See the next post for the sketch and dimensions.

Tom Kizer

[Tomnistuff]

Oops!  I forgot the sketch and dimensions.  It is a section horizontally through the door handle slot in the door skin and a part of the rear door frame that the handle bolts to.  Black dimensions are left door (OK).  Red dimensions are right door (problem)

Tom Kizer

[66andBlue]

Tom
i am traveling and looking at your drawing on my small phone screen doesn’t help me figuring out your problem.
I am still not clear where the bar - i guess you call it “boss”? - with the screw hole hits the door frame.
Is it edge of the hole in the door panel or the door jamb where the screw goes through.
I believe the hole edge meets the handle where the green arrow points to.
The bar meets the jamb - red arrow.

[Tomnistuff]

Hi Alfred,
The cylindrical part of the handle does not contact the edge of the hole at all.  The "bar" or "boss" on the handle is pulled hard against a similarly shaped "bar" that is a part of the inside rear wall of what you call the jamb and what I call the door frame, the die cast (I think) aluminum door sized structure to which all the door hardware, including the door skin and inside door panel are attached.
I will take two more photos today to show something that I noticed yesterday.  They will show that the "rolled" edge of the door hole fits nicely into the gap between the pad surface on the handle and the beginning of the "bar", (your green arrow) but only if the handle is rotated to be non-horizontal so that the handle "bar" in not in the plane of, and does not contact the "bar" on the door jamb.  The photos convince me that it is the "bar" contact that keeps the handle too far forward and causes the "gap".  My dimensions sketch attempts to explain why and how.
I will post the photos in a few hours.
Tom Kizer

[Pawel66]

I see - if there is a threat of interfering with tumbler lever/locking lever operation when handle moved aft - yes, RTV or filler + paint pencil is the simple solution and partial closing of the hole in the door skin and re-painting is the hard core solution... here you could maybe just "unbind" the edge of the hole, you need just 2.5mm, but some paint would/could come off. Could be perhaps, if it can be done via "unbinding" gently, you could get away with paint pencil, with some luck...

When I look at your picture, this "bound" hole edge is quite deep, actually.

Unless there are better ideas from fellow Members, which we hope for...

[Tomnistuff]

Here are three photos that show respectively:
(1) The bars or bosses screwed together by the rear screw.  You can see the end of the screw penetrating the bars.
(2) The handle in the hole, but rotated 90 degrees CW and pushed upwards.  You can see that the hole edge goes easily and deeply into the space where Alfred’s green arrow was pointing in his last photo.
(3) The last is with the handle in its correct orientation and screwed in place like the first photo.  Note the large gap.  The bars are preventing the handle from moving aft far enough to cover the hole even if the pad were installed.

This leads back to the dimensional comparison in my last sketch.  Because, relative to the door jamb bar, the left door hole is 2.5 mm farther forward than is the right door hole, the left handle covers it’s hole but the right handle cannot cover it’s hole.

I still think it is a factory build issue from 52 years ago.

Please excuse the colors.  One photo is without flash due to reflections.
Tomorrow