The Stirling Moss Pagoda

[robbo65]

Hey All,

Was hoping someone might help me identify my chassis/engine number configuration - which is proving beyond my basic grasp of the published information!

The chassis number begins with W113.042 and ends in 016431 - I can't find this in the Data Card list?

Any guidance would be much appreciated!

Thank you,
robbo65

[WRe]

Hi,
did you read this: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/DataCards ?
...WRe

[robbo65]

Thank you WRe...

Still finding my way around!
Will attempt to decipher.
My initial search had led me to this page, which did not seem to list the number I have?
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear

[WRe]

Hi,
your chassis code 113.042 leads to a 230SL build from 06/1963 to 01/1967, see https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Main/W113ModelData.
Your serial number 016431 leads to a production period between April and May 1966.
...WRe

[robbo65]

Thanks again WRe - I just found that.
The other confusing part is that W113.042 should be a 230 - which is what is stamped on the chassis plate, however the engine is a 250 stamped TYP M129.I and 129.980???

[zoegrlh]

Replacement engine from 250SL
Bob

[mbzse]

Replacement engine from 250SL

Actually, not a Pagoda engine; it is from a 250SE (W108). (Minor differences).
Be sure to check that the engine support arms are of the Pagoda variety, if not the engine is in too high a position
See for instance https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=11554.0

[robbo65]

Thank you for the information - I will check these points out and keep digging!
Apparently the car was on display at the 1966 Earls Court Motor Show and was originally owned by Stirling Moss...

[MikeSimon]

I thought Stirling Moss had a special custom built 230SL with a hopped up motor by the factory. Could it be that the motor is NOT a replacement but the original?

[robbo65]

Was hoping someone might say that Mike!
The car does also have a modified pagoda hardtop with a full width vent, that again was supposedly made at Stirling’s request.
My Wife inherited the car from her father, when he sadly passed away in 2012.
The sentimental connection with it having been her father’s car, has meant that she’s kept her distance from it to some extent.
However we are keen to learn as much as we can.
Really need to get a hold of the original Data Card to verify how it left the factory - that is now top of the list!
Will keep you posted...

[Pawel66]

If this is THIS kind of car - perhaps Daimler would be happy to assist you!

Pictures please, if you were so kind!

[robbo65]

Thus far, Daimler have not been very helpful at all and have advised that they cannot provide any information on previous owners!
They have also stated that we can apply for a copy of the original Data Card - although I note from another thread on this forum, that they are now charging $150 for that privilege...

[robbo65]

The Registration document confirms that the car was originally registered as M7
Bizarrely, after I'd been on the Forum last night, I did find this advertisement online for J Wax from 1966!

[ejboyd5]

If your's is indeed that car, $150.00 is a quite reasonable price to pay to solidify its provenance and a penalty on you for not having acted sooner when the information was free.

[smackYYZ]

You can buy a hard original of this ad on eBay,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-MERCEDES-BENZ-230SL-STIRLING-MOSS-CLASSIC-ORIGINAL-J-WAX-AD/392203878180 plus 2 others for $10 each

Also found this image of Moss in his M7 230sl on getty , but they want $500 for it.
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/stirling-moss-and-rob-walker-230sl-at-silverstone-news-photo/647289666

[Pawel66]

If your's is indeed that car, $150.00 is a quite reasonable price to pay to solidify its provenance and a penalty on you for not having acted sooner when the information was free.

Indeed, if this is the car, I would not worry too much about $150 for a datacard....

[robbo65]

We will indeed obtain the Data Card - my Wife’s Father had the original somewhere but we can’t find it!
I did also purchase the copy of the advertisement...
Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to comment, it is very much appreciated!

[robbo65]

And thank you smackYYZ for the Getty image!

[mbzse]

.../...Apparently the car was on display at the 1966 Earls Court Motor Show and was originally owned by Stirling Moss...

That is extremely interesting!
A special story behind the car, because Stirling Moss wanted the M129 (250SE) engine in his 230SL, when he ordered it (spring of 1966). This version was not offered by Daimler-Benz at that time.
Sterling insisted and went to great length to have the larger displacement sedan (W108) engine fitted into his 230 SL Pagoda, as a "special order". The result would then be the very car that you own (registration "M7")!
Mercedes of course had the M129 engine version of the Pagoda (i.e. 250SL) in the pipeline, but could not acknowledge this fact. The 250 SL was introduced on the market early 1967.

[robbo65]

Appreciate your input mbzse!
We'd heard snippets of the story over the years from my Wife's Father but hadn't paid too much attention at the time!
As I mentioned previously, my father-in-law sadly passed away in 2012 and only recently has my Wife felt up to looking into the car's legacy.
It's great to have those in the know like yourself, flesh out the story to what does seem to be a rather special car...
I have some images which I will dig out and upload later.
Thanks again!

[Iconic]

I'll bet others on the site who have not seen this would be very interested. They might not look at this string thinking ... "someone else can help this guy with his Data Card".
But, if you start a new string titled something like "Stirling Moss' 230 SL" many others will look and possibly give you more information.
Very interesting car. Thank you for sharing.
"Enjoy the ride",
Mark

[114015]

Highly interesting story, Rob,
about a car being most interesing too.

Go get this data card ... it will contain invaluable info...,
e.g. perhaps already the 129.980 engine number or another code number (like 998) on it indicating some "special order" details.

Enclosed another picture of Stirling Moss ...
picking up "his" 230 SL" together with his then wife Elaine in Stuttgart about 1966 or so.
Alfred Neubauer, aged 75 on that pic, was his former race director at Mercedes and he flagged them away.

This is what the text says:
"Former racing driver Stirling Moss, 36, being "flagged away" by his old chief, Alfred Neubauer, 75, when he visited Stuttgart, Germany, to pick up his new Mercedes-Benz 230 SL sports car. In the passenger seat is Stirling Moss's wife Elaine"


What you can see is that Stirling's car is a RHD without outer rearview mirror and with black steering wheel...
... basically the same setup as on the colo(u)red Getty picture with Rob Walker mentioned above and also with the M7 registration plate.

In contrast the "M7"-registered car on your Johnson Wax add is a LHD with ivory-colored steering wheel, US-sealed beam headlights and _with_ mirror.
So, clearly a different car.
I would guess only one of both is the "real M7" ..., the RHD,
and that is supposingly/hopefully  yours (or your wife's).

Please, can you confirm this?
We need pictures of your car and the engine number and more details and the data card and more details.
Try to find the original documentation of your father-in-law...

What a great story ....!
Congratulations on your great find !

Best,

Achim



and

[robbo65]

Wow!
Great addition to the tale 114015...
I guess it would be too much to ask whether all these bits of information are collected in any one place???
And yes, I had noticed that the J Wax image had a few anomalies - I wondered if it was perhaps 1966 cut and paste "photoshopping", to satisfy a US market!
RHD, country code 22 for UK and 992 for "For other non-coded options see production order" on the Option Code Plate is what we have.
Again, many, many thanks!

[robbo65]

The last time the car left the house was in 2002, when the R230 was launched.
The local dealership displayed all 5 models to that date.
I apologise for the quality of these images as they are quick phone images of the original SLR photographs, also at the time I was having a black and white film period, which does not do the car as much justice as colour film would for the purposes of this post!
I would add that the car is currently and unfortunately, a non-standard paint colour.
Originally it was 172G Anthracite Grey.
In 1970 it was resprayed "Jag Pearl Grey" according to an invoice, though it appears more of a pale sky blue...

[114015]

Well, Rob,

(is this your real name...?)

Basically there is no one single place "with all the knowledge you can imagine" other than our Wiki...
... and there's still a lot we  have to add in there.

The picture I added lately (the Stirling-Elaine-Moss-Alfred Neubauer pic) is a well-known factory pic being published in several of the common SL books. That's where I knew it from. I also remembered Hans's story about the engine swap (from the 'Engelen' ...?) and so on.

Sadly, only all the  owners and forum users here together present in their entiretythe comprehensive knowledge we have ... and which we share here.
 


Best,

Achim