Cost for an engine rebuild

[johnm]

 I'm fearful I'm going to have to have my engine rebuilt soon including piston rings etc. I would appreciate input on what kind of cost I'd be looking at for this. I would need to have all work outsourced. Also interested in knowing whether the engine can remain in the car when this work is performed or does it have to come out? Thanks very much.... John

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hi John,

This is a very difficult question as you well know I am sure. All depends as to what work will be required and what new parts you will need to put it all back together.

A better question might be “what cost am I looking at to disassemble the engine and put her back together” repairs and parts would be at cost plus. This would give you a ball park number IMHO

One major recommendation would be for you to find someone that does this work on Pagoda Engines all the time. A engine/compression test may provide a near ball park number as to what will be required, however, only once the engine is apart can accurate costs for rework and parts replacement be established once clearances and measurements have been taken etc.

As to your question is it required to remove the engine. It is most likely yes, unless measurements and clearance/head flatness check etc. Show that no machining will be required.

Perhaps other Members can provide information to you as to what an engine rebuild has cost them or Joe Alexander and/or Dan Caron can let you know what ball park numbers are from minimum to maximum. As said it is very difficult to give you a number up front for one never knows what one finds until a visual inspection is done and all measurements are available.

Good luck,

Dieter

[johnm]

 
 Thanks Dieter. I understand. Perhaps the more appropriate question would be what price range might I expect. Hoping to get a sense from some of the other members. thanks very much again for your advice.
John

[rjmarco]

I have experience as recent as a year ago.  To have the engine pulled by a mechanic, sent to a rebuild shop with Mercedes-Benz expertise, do a typical rebuild including replacement parts, and then reinstall back in the car is about a $15,000 endeavor. 

[johnm]

 
 Wow 15K plus 1/2 of what I own when my wife divorces me is too much for this cat. I'll definitely invest in the compression test though to see if I may be in for. thanks very much for the input.
John

[ja17]

What kind of running issues are you having first of all? A good reconditioning of the cylinder head can often cure most running problems. What is the mileage and history of the engine? Optional items like detailing the engine bay, re-plating the cadmium parts, reconditioning the injection system, rebuilding all the bolt on components (starter, alternator etc.), reconditioning or re-coring radiator will drive up prices a lot.  Parts are becoming scarcer and more expensive every day. Local automotive machinists shops are disappearing. Finding parts and skilled, experienced machinists is difficult. You have one chance to do it right so cutting corners is not an option. 10K to 15K or more these days,, could be the range depending on the extent of the work involved.

[johnm]

 Thanks for your input Joe. Generally the car runs well but burns a lot of oil. (a quart every 100km (60 miles) or so) Also spark plugs in two of the cylinders fowl up after only a few short outings and one (spark plug nearest to the fire wall) fowls up so bad that it stops firing. I have to clean it and then it works for a while. Mechanics is definitely not my strong suit but there is a good Mercedes mechanic in the area.

[mBdrvr]

I had my engine completely rebuilt for just under $5,000. I removed and reinstalled it myself.

[johnm]

 Thanks Paul. Now that number or thereabouts I could probably swing.
John

[StevenF]

John
I had compression issues and sent my engine to Metric Motors in California. The cost for that was about 8k.  My mechanic was about 6k in labor.  There are other things you need to consider (in addition to what was said before in previous responses) is :
Do I replace other parts (Thermostat, water pump, engine and transmission mounts, paint the engine bay, air condition lines, fuel lines, hoses, and the list can go on and on.  Personally I don't think sending the parts out to re plated is worth the cost or labor unless you have a show car.  Having done a fairly extensive restoration, I can assure that one project can easily "bleed" into another and the money will surely follow.  I would follow the recommendations of Dieter and Joe--they are 2 very knowledgeable and highly respected people in our club.
Steven
Take a look
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=23699.0

[Benz Dr.]

One thing I don't know is what car you have. 230SL engine parts are more expensive but labor is about the same. You also have to figure 35% exchange rate, duty, brokerage and shipping from the Sates so having it done in Canada will be less for machining and labor.

[Peter h]

Hello
I go this way. The engine is one part, the rest of the engine bay and all aggregate are the other part. Much work until you fix everything right. 8000 to 10000 euros for the engine and 2000 to 5000 euros for the rest.
I work with some friends and save a lot of money.
Engine with 250000 km....
Peter

[ja17]

1K to 1.5K of head work might cure your problems. What's the history and mileage of your engine? Might be worth a try, also you can examine the cylinders when the head is off.

[johnm]

 Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. My car is a 1970 280SL. The odometer says 45000 miles but most likely 145000 or maybe even 245000 as I don't know the history of the car. I really appreciate everyone's input as I figure out what to do next as Spring approaches.
John 

[Benz Dr.]

If your engine has 145,000 miles on it then it will need a rebuild. Most I've rebuilt have less miles than that; few would have more and still run.

I don't care how you cut it, but you should expect to spend north of 10K CDN to have a decent engine rebuild. If you can do some of the work yourself you will keep the cost down somewhat but even I can't do a full engine rebuild for 5K.

[johnm]

 Thanks Dan. Appreciate the advice.
John

[merrill]

hi
a quick call to metric motors may answer your question.

BR
matt

[Tom in seattle]

You mention #6 plug fouling.  Here is something I read in the section describing how to adjust an auto transmission:   You should check your #6 spark plug for fouling. You could have a bad diaphram (can't recall the name) on the auto trans that is bad. It is supposed to be vacuum activated and it can suck auto trans fluid up the vacuum line to the intake manifold and foul plug #6. It would also create white smoke out the exhaust.

Probably not related but maybe yes.

[Rick]

My experience with the 280SL M130 engine is that excessive oil consumption related to the rear cylinders suggests scuffing of the cylinder bore.  These engines ran hot at the back end and tend to be suspectable to this. With a scope and the piston down low, with carefull examination, you can often see the cylinder wall scoring.

I hate to bring this up, but- Another concern with cylinder scoring is that the bore could be beyond limits for reboring oversize.  I have also seen this situation several times, but not always.   You then would need to look at sleeving, which is really not desirable, or a replacement block. I have gotten a bit ahead on this, but I figure knowing potential issues and thinking about it might be good. 

[Cees Klumper]

Sleeving has often been mentioned in discussions here, but has anyone ever done it or heard of someone having done it?

[Jordan]

Sleeving has often been mentioned in discussions here, but has anyone ever done it or heard of someone having done it?

Not a Mercedes engine but I know someone who rebuild a 6 cyl flat head a number of years ago and had to sleeve two of the cylinders.  He's put 30,000 miles (50,000 km) on the engine since and still runs great.

[ja17]

Sleeving is not a mysterious process. In fact some Mercedes Diesel engines came sleeved from the factory when new. The Mercedes 6cyl M189 engine (llater version)with aluminum blocks also had steel sleeves.  The quality of the sleeve material and the skill of the machinist doing the work are the critical factors. With that said, the M130 series engine has very little material between the cylinders and I do not know if it is possible?  Previous engines M129, M180 (220, 230 and 250) should be fine sleeved.

[sandcrab59]

To PeterH:
Do you have any other pictures at different angles of how you attach the angle iron to the top of the engine.
Tom

[Benz Dr.]

I install all of my engines with manifolds off and use the motor mount arms with nylon straps looped around each one to lower the whole thing into the engine bay. I find that manifolds only get in the way when hooking up throttle linkage and electrical connections while nylon straps won't break or scratch anything. YMMV

I had a 190SL in once and the previous shop before me had the engine in and out of the car several times trying to figure out where a knocking noise was coming from. They used a chain bolted on to the cam bearings ( using the head bolts I assume ) and it broke two of them.  As it turned out, the two outer main bearings were installed upside down blocking off the oil galleys.

 The owner was royally pissed about it for good reason. The guy who rebuilt it was supposed to be an expert and the shop before me had it for about a year and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. Thing is, it had good oil pressure which clearly fooled them. As soon as I couldn't source the noise I said pull that POS out and tear it down. Seemed a clear path to me.......

Anyway, when I see stuff bolted to the top of any engine with valve cover off, ready to drop in to the engine bay, I think back to the mess I found. Maybe I spook too easily.

[sandcrab59]

I agree. that seems to be dangerous to hold all that weight.
I understand, from Gary that you are going to have a get together at the end of August, is that correct?
Tom