Non-functioning items

[gullwing71]

What items generally stop working?  I am trying to learn so that I can make reasonable offers on cars.

Is it the odometer and/or clock?  If so is this for any particular year, after any mileage (>100k), or random.  i.e. for most cars, these items continue to work?  For odometer and clock are there any maintenance to be required or just after the fact.  Also, can the odometer be disconnected, so that low mileage cars need to be viewed cautiously?

Any other items (except radio), antenna, etc that need to be checked. 

Thanks!!!

[teahead]

I dunno, but I think odometer is a common issue.  Mine sure has an issue.

No, can't disconnect the odometer and still have the speedo working.  If not working, something is broke.

Other common issues?  Dunno, I'm new to Pagodes too, but seems like many have starting issues (hot, cold, or both), rich mixtures, and oil leaks.

Ditto turn signal switch wonkiness (like mine).  Maybe blown driver's seat (like mine); i.e. broken spring or something.

Not sure if it's common, but be sure all the heater stuff is working.   The controls are uber expensive, and changing out the blower motor and/or heater core is a royal PITA and expensive to have repaired by someone else.

But most importantly is the body.  Look for minimal to zero rust, signs of repair (spot welds/notches), and alignment of the doors, hoods, and trunk.

[Garry]

Its a fifty year old car.  If they are quoting it low mileage then they must prove it with all receipts showing mileage vs dates. Otherwise you must assume that the speedo has been around the clock several times at least.

Sure clock and speedo’s are both items that fail but they are not failures specific to the car.

Oil leaks can be expensive to fix but they are again not specific to the car and usually come about from low usage and seals drying out.

As teahead said, make sure the heater is working as it is one of the hardest things to get to in the car and basically needs the dashboard pulled apart to work on the core.

I would be watching for rust as the biggest item and there is a whole swag of do’s and dont’s in the Tech Manual on buying a car so have a good read of that. it is probably the best bit of reading you can do prior to purchase without a doubt.

Good luck.

Garry
 Oh, and when you have read the buyers guide in the Tech Manual,   read it again. 😁

[gullwing71]

Thanks to both of you !!!
This is going to be interesting several months for me.  I will get a PPI done for sure as well as re-reading the Tech manual.

[JamesL]

Or do what I did and buy the first one you see
No Tech Manual back then and I was oh, so very green.

Remember, if you post pics of a car on here for comment, it will be put under a microscope... Your job is to understand which highlighted issues you can live with, and which are deal breakers...

[teahead]

As the old adage goes:  buy the best one you can afford.  Maybe pay even more than what you can afford if it means less work down the road.

[gullwing71]

I agree with paying as much as you can.  I am going to trade in my current 2002 R129 Silver Arrow for a Pagoda. But I want a 280SL 1971.  Hopefully, with the expertise from members of this site I can buy a non-lemon and have -ve buyers remorse (ha ha !!).  My father in London is a 40yrs+ experienced car mechanic so I have picked up many points from him, but I work in Finance and wish I had graduated in Tech College instead.  Anyway, I am looking fwd to being a full member of this group once i have realized my Pagoda dream. 

[FresnoBob]

I am a year into restoring my 66 230 SL and there have certainly been big frustrations, but in general, overcoming challenges and getting the car running properly and restoring the interior has been an enjoyable experience.  I had my clock rebuilt in N. Carolina for $255.  Probably one of the least expensive parts of the renovation.  Not sure of your comfort level in mechanics, but I have been able to figure out what needed to be done after consulting the Technical Manual and getting answers through the forum. 

[Shvegel]

The usual failure of the odometer is a broken gear in the string.  You can avoid this by not resetting it while moving and making sure to push it all the way in. 

[66andBlue]

.... But I want a 280SL 1971.  ......

You are already starting out on the wrong foot, or tire! 
Why limit yourself that much? Only about 300 280SL were made in 1971!
And those are not necessarily the best or least prone to failures.
The most desirable one is most likely a 250SL built before June 1967.
 One more time:

Garry
 Oh, and when you have read the buyers guide in the Tech Manual,   read it again. 😁

[Bonnyboy]

I saw your note about the odometer -  I wouldn't worry so much about the odometer but check the overall condition of the car.  Get under it and shake things about - check for rust rather than shiny paint.  Do the doors rattle?   I find with these cars things just deteriorate rather than break.

I saw a pagoda a couple years back that the odometer said 65,000 miles.  The guy standing next to the car was telling his buddy that he thought it may be original mileage and I pointed out that the brake pedal pad was worn down to the metal so probably it rolled over.  The owner came by and said that the car actually had 265,000 miles but years of looking and throwing loads of money at it kept it looking and driving good. 

My car has 84,000 miles but you would think it had more the way it rattles (I assume some gravel road driving in its past).

[waltklatt]

Or purchase one from a reputable pagoda owner, whom has one for sale.
A few of us are selling our prized cars.
Better to find one that has been owned by the same owner for a long time, rather than a flipper.
With the age they are now approaching, faults here and there are expected.
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel(21 yrs owned)

[dpreston Virginia]

Watch Pierre Hedary's You Tube videos to learn more about what an old Mercedes costs to get it running well and fix lots of stuff. He says expect 25K easily most cars.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDTOh7Fk-QSSpi24UJIcs5A

From my experience my documented low mileage Pagoda (43,000 mile) has cost me over 20k in repairs. Transmission going out was 1/4 of that.
I didn't paint it or replace the interior. Lots of mechanical items that you just have to do. See my list below lots of things.

2/5/12   Muffler adjustment instal   Roberts Muffler                     $75.00
4/16/12   Transmission Fluid and filter   Foreign Affairs   40.798   $208.94
4/16/12   Brake System Flush and Fill   Foreign Affairs   40.798   $112.00
4/16/12   Oil / Filter Change 5W 30    Foreign Affairs   40798           $44.95
4/23/12   Replace heater levers   K and K Manufacturing   40.798   $235.00
5/10/12   Tune up parts Muffler   Buds Benz Mercedes                     $828.00
6/14/12   Coco mats front rear trunk mats   Coco mats   41,500         $506.40
6/14/12    Verdestein Tires   Black Forrest    41,500                 $605.00
6/14/12   Original radio restoration    41,500                                 $395.00
7/19/12   Body work repair / paint rear install weather-strip / whiskers   Euro Specialty   41,500   $2,718.68
7/30/12   Install tires   Spee Dee   41,500                                $111.61
8/1/12   Spark Plug Wires, Plugs,  Dist Cap, Rotor, Points   Buds Benz Mercedes   41,500   $130.00
10/17/12   Fuel Cap   Classic Center   41,500                                 $155.00
10/17/12   Front grill chrome surround    Classic Center   41,50.    $1,360.00
12/5/12   Improve Idle   Sports Car Clinic   41500                 $1,887.91
   Adjust Valves, Replace Oil Pan Gasket and Crankshaft Seal   $1367 Labor disc. $911 from original      
   Speedometer cable, diff boot repair, replace engine mounts   $459 Parts      
   replace transmission mounts, new hardware exhaust manifold         
   hook up idle solenoid wire corroded, Install radio         
   Install Plugs, Wires, Rotor, Cap and Points         
3/13/14   Hose Clamps, Engine hoses,    Buds Benz Mercedes.  $378.00
4/10/15   Transmission overhaul                                     $4,000.00
1/18/17   Rebuild Tachometer   Overseas Speedometer      $144.75
2/23/17   New Brake Booster   Rockauto                            $117.78
3/20/17   Pressure Wash frame   Certified Car Care             $175.00
3/24/17   Dash Speaker Fuel filler hose   Authentic Classics.   $120.36
4/21/15   Instal Transmission   Sports Car Clinic            $1,126.39
4/14/17   Differential Mount   Buds Benz Mercedes           $167.00
5/11/17   Remove power steering pump over haul re-instal, Fuse issue, Idle work   Sports Car Clinic      $1,984.40
5/25/17   Rebuid radiator and instal.  Change oil   Sports Car Clinic      $1,648.60
            
            
            
            
   Maintenance since Preston Purchase          
      Total Spent        $19,736

[teahead]

Oh man.  Ignorance is bliss.

I don't ever want to add up car bills.

[dpreston Virginia]

Adding up can be shocking. While I don't want to look at the total sometimes it may help others understand how quickly costs add up when thinking about a purchase.
There is about $2,000 in labor I could of saved if I did more in my garage.

[gullwing71]

Wow!  Those costs can surely spiral.  I will try and get the best one I can and just hope to work on some items myself.  I guess doing as much as possible yourself is therapeutic in itself.  I was reading that the VDO/Kienzle clocks can be repaired and also upgraded to using quartz.  Is there a previous thread for the best way forward on repairing the clock and who to send it to?

[TJMart]

If it helps consider the amount your car has appreciated since your purchase and compare to what $ you have in it.

[MikeSimon]

Why limit yourself that much? Only about 300 280SL were made in 1971!
 

That depends how you define a "1971 280SL"
The 1971 model year started around August/September of 1970 (someone will know exactly when) Production of the W113 ended in late February/early March 1971 (someone will know exactly when).
Unless you limit the definition of "1971 280SL"  to cars made in the calendar year 1971, your estimate of 300 units is off by quite a few. But even then: My car has chassis number 22774 and was produced on December 16, 1970, leaving around 1200-1300 (someone will know exactly how many) produced after that. And I don't think they were all made in December of 1970, except for 300 of them.

[Garry]

Mike,


That’s the US definition of year model but the rest of the world worked on real time and thus production date is all that matters


US year model is fake news to help sell more cars somehow.

[Benz Dr.]

The usual failure of the odometer is a broken gear in the string.  You can avoid this by not resetting it while moving and making sure to push it all the way in.

I'm not so sure about that. Trip meter is supposed to disengage while you turn it back to zero. The gear is more likely to come loose on the shaft than it is to actually break. Nothing wrong with being careful though.

[georgem]

Wow!  Those costs can surely spiral.  I will try and get the best one I can and just hope to work on some items myself.  I guess doing as much as possible yourself is therapeutic in itself.  I was reading that the VDO/Kienzle clocks can be repaired and also upgraded to using quartz.  Is there a previous thread for the best way forward on repairing the clock and who to send it to?

To be blunt, whether a clock works or not in a car that you are looking at is small cheese compared to all the other things that can cost mega dollars - if the only thing stopping you buying a particular car is the fact that the clock doesn`t work then your priorities are skewd... and yes, the clocks can be converted to a quartz movement - ours was done by Palo Alto a couple of years back - indistinguishable from the original  - sorry it is different ........ it keeps perfect time and is silent - hasn`t got the mechanical rewind every now and then .  I think is cost a couple of hundred bucks.

Good luck in your search, but as Gary says, they are old cars and unless you are prepared to spend to spend a squillion bucks on a "perfect restoration" then every car you look at will be a compromise - sure you will be trying to get the best car for your $ but rust and mechanicals are the money black holes - most other things can be lived with and worked on as time and budget allow.

[mnahon]

Buying a 50 year old car is not like buying a 10-year old one. There may be common failures that occur on quite a few of the cars, but their importance is small compared to the problems of the specific car. Since each car has been maintained differently and subjected to very different conditions over 50 years, they end up in very different conditions. Hence the importance of a PPI by a person who knows these cars.

But as others have said, the one common and critical ailment is rust. In these cars, it hides very well; especially if it's been hidden by the seller. So it's important to look hard for it, and know where to look. That one item will cost you way more than a lot of clocks and odometers.