Researching a Production data point

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

 Any idea on researching a production data point.

If I obviously have my vin number, have the exact date of delivery per the M-B provided "Zertifikat" and the number of cars that were produced in that year per available statistics, any ideas on how to determine the cars position in that year.'s production

For example, if 6325 sl's were produced in 1965, what would my car be-  e.g. 2378/6325 or some number like that

Interesting fact to have about an owned car and where it sits in that production year   jb

[Garry]

The way to establish what your car had on it and exactly when it was produced is to get the data card available from Mercedes Benz Classic centre.  That way you will also know what options were on it and the date it came off the line.

[neelyrc]

Good advice Garry.  The production numbers in the Technical Manual will also help to zero in on the date.

I believe that the  date stamp on the data card provided by the Classic Center is close and could possibly be the exact date of production. 

Several copies of my data card were delivered with the car on February 12, 1969.  These cards had no production date stamped on them. A few years ago, as a matter of curiosity, I requested a copy of the data card for my car from the Classic Center.  A copy of one of my original data cards and a copy of the Classic Center card is attached.

The date of 24 Feb 1969 on the Classic Center card is actually 12 days after the date my car was delivered to me. The data in the Technical Manual indicates my car was produced in January, 1969, which looks reasonable considering the delivery date.  Possibly the date was stamped on the factory file copy when the card (copy4 in my case) was entered in the data system.  These stamped  dates may or may not have been the actual production date but were probably close.     

[Garry]

That’s very telling Ralph as an original owner that would indicate that the stamped date that appears on the Classic Centre data cards could in fact be 24 days or even more after coming off production line if you then added shipping customs etc.

[MikeSimon]

Ralph, the picture of the card you posted shows empty fields for  "Übernahmetag"  - Delivery Date and "Zulassungsdatum" - date of registration.
Both fields are next to each other. On my original card, the fields are above each other and only the date of registration field is filled in.

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

Thank you to all who took the time to respond to my question.  My data card has a smudgy hand stamped date in the area of "Übernahmetag attached (17 May 1965) which does coincides with the M-B Zertificat information for delivery

However, what I am trying to research is what number my car might be in the series of cars produced in 1965 e.g. xx of the 6325 produced in 1965.  The data card does not answer that question

Anyone have any other suggestions?

JB

[Garry]

That’s the really easy one.  Take the first years production from the total of 230’s, then take the second years production from the remaining total, then you will know the start production number for 1965 and your production number will fit in between the start and end numbers for 1965.


Have i missed something here?

[mrfatboy]

Along the lines of what Gary is suggesting you can use the below Pagoda Notes article and a little math and it should get you close.

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/Restricted/PNv10i2.pdf

[Norm]

If you haven"t looked, production data is available by month and year as well as some export numbers in the tech manual..

If you assume 5 working days per week you can come pretty close to your actual production date.

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear

Using this approach I believe my car came off the assembly line around September 26, 1966.  The certificate confirms delivery on October 7, 1966 in Hanover, Germany.


Norm

[MikeSimon]

Gentlemen:

A word of caution! One of the motorcycle clubs I am involved with has a really nice documentation about yearly VIN numbers and production dates in a certain month. Even there it is extremely difficult to determine the exact day/date when the vehicle rolled off the line. You just can NOT use simple math to narrow the date down. Many factors contribute to that. In any given year, in any specific country, there are certain "holidays" or plant closure days due local schedules, school vacations, weather issues or even worker's strikes. It is next to impossible to determine a date when any vehicle rolled off the production line. Another unknown is, if the specific vehicle passed final inspection and may have to be routed back for rework, which would delay the "roll off" date.
The plant in Untertürkheim is in the state of Baden-Württemberg and was subject to several "church" holidays, that were only observed south of the "Weisswurst-Equator" which will throw any math base don days worked per month off.
Besides, I relay don't know what the point would be to know the day or even the month of manufacture. If you can place your car into early, middle or late of a model year, that should be great.
Easy for me to say, because I have a date of delivery in my card of December 16, 1970 and together with the VIN number I can comfortably say it was a December 1970 production

[Norm]

All very good points Mike but it is still fun to speculate.....

For me I kind of like to think that I was sitting in Spanish class my senior year in high school on a Monday morning in Pennsylvania when my car came off the line in Germany in the afternoon (with six hours time difference)

But don't worry, I will not be stating that as a fact to anyone.  Just having fun.....

Norm

[Garry]

Actually Mike,

Not that simple if you re read Ralph’s reply, as an original owner, his data card stamped date from Classic Centre as distinct from his original card, was 12 days after he took delivery.  To that potential error, you have to add a shipping or transport time so in your case with a 16 December stamp date, assuming your date stamp is the Classic Centre data card, it could be possible you are late November manufacture.  Unless of course you took delivery of your car in Germany as a tourist delivery and the date you are referring to is on an original data card and not the Classic Centre card, then the dates will be much closer.

[mrfatboy]

🤣

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

I apologize for stirring up such a dialogue and controversy, but everyone has to admit, it's fun to speculate and confirm that everyone loves their car whenever it was built

jb

[Garry]

Now there is a Pagoda owner here in Australia that some years ago worked out that one of the well known photos on the Pagoda production line was probably of his car.  Now that’s mind blowing.   

[MikeSimon]

Actually Mike,

Not that simple if you re read Ralph’s reply, as an original owner, his data card stamped date from Classic Centre as distinct from his original card, was 12 days after he took delivery.  To that potential error, you have to add a shipping or transport time so in your case with a 16 December stamp date, assuming your date stamp is the Classic Centre data card, it could be possible you are late November manufacture.  Unless of course you took delivery of your car in Germany as a tourist delivery and the date you are referring to is on an original data card and not the Classic Centre card, then the dates will be much closer.

Garry: My data card is the original that came with the car. The car was delivered and first registered in Germany. It was bought new by a fur dealer in Frankfurt/Germany as a Christmas present for his wife. I bought it while I still lived in Germany in 1982.

[Garry]

Mike, then it will be pretty close as i said if it’s the original card and not the CC card, and delivered in Germany you would think it was only days off the production line  if it was an ordered car and not one off the showroom floor.
Ralph’s date gap on the other hand is quite large. Makes me rethink my own actual date which was a tourist delivery but the data card i have is from the Classic Centre which could be several weeks later.

[getsmart]

Now there is a Pagoda owner here in Australia that some years ago worked out that one of the well known photos on the Pagoda production line was probably of his car.  Now that’s mind blowing.   

That might have been me! Guilty as charged Garry (though Andy was a willing accomplice-actually, he started it all) !!! We must catch up!!!

Rgds, Joe

[Garry]

Hi Joe,


After Xmas, i was planning on suggesting a coffee run maybe early in Feb and see if we can get the local Pagoda owners together again.


I just love the fact that you were able to work out production numbers, options  LH/RH colours  etc etc to get that it was your car..  Very very 😎

[neelyrc]

Ralph, the picture of the card you posted shows empty fields for  "Übernahmetag"  - Delivery Date and "Zulassungsdatum" - date of registration.
Both fields are next to each other. On my original card, the fields are above each other and only the date of registration field is filled in.

Mike,
It appears your data card is a Version 4 as described in the Technical Manual while mine is a Version 3.  The fields moved around on the various versions.  No dates were filled in on any of the cards I received with the car when delivered at the factory on February 12, 1969. 

By the way Mike, in Reply #9 of this thread you indicated the “delivery” date of December 16 was filled in on your original data card and the above quote indicates the “registration” date was filled in.  Whichever was filled in, according to the Technical Manual your 22774 chassis certainly appears to be early December, 1970 manufacture.

[JamesL]

On the basis that in October 1969 they were making about 33 cars a day, mine would have come off the line about the 8th October (about 6 working days into the month)

Belated happy 50th...

[MikeSimon]

Mike,
It appears your data card is a Version 4 as described in the Technical Manual while mine is a Version 3.  The fields moved around on the various versions.  No dates were filled in on any of the cards I received with the car when delivered at the factory on February 12, 1969. 

By the way Mike, in Reply #9 of this thread you indicated the “delivery” date of December 16 was filled in on your original data card and the above quote indicates the “registration” date was filled in.  Whichever was filled in, according to the Technical Manual your 22774 chassis certainly appears to be early December, 1970 manufacture.

I believe the factory did not fill in these fields, because in the German version, both "Übernahmetag" und "Zulassungsdatum" are dates only the dealer would actually have a record of.
Usually, they are the same as the dealer "delivers" the car to the customer and processes the registration. Of the two fields only the "Zulassungsdatum" - registration date - is filled in on my card. "Zulassungsdatum" is also stated in the original German title of my car and it is December 16, 1970.

[Garry]

Mike,


Just so i understand, was your car a German delivered/registered car or a tourist delivery to an American owner at the factory and not delivered by a dealer in the USA?

[MikeSimon]

Garry:

It is a German delivered car. German specs. It was originally delivered by the "Daimler Benz Niederlassung Frankfurt". I bought it in Germany as the 3rd owner in 1982 and brought it with me to the US in 1988.