Author Topic: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue  (Read 2454 times)

dnadanny1

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Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« on: December 15, 2019, 15:17:13 »
Hi there.

How can I accurately decide whether valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster are wore out and need to be replaced?
Is there any standard specification or tools needed for such measurement?

Thanks,
Danny Cho

MikeSimon

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2019, 15:22:03 »
Danny: I just visually inspected mine. If the ball shows a distinct crown on top, it is time to replace. Replace both parts, rocker arm and ball stud. I will post a picture later today of the parts I replaced next to a new one.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

mbzse

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2019, 15:30:32 »
The basic shape is a sphere with 12mm diameter
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 15:34:57 by mbzse »
/Hans S

MikeSimon

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2019, 17:14:33 »
If the studs have never been replaced, you will most probably not find a car out there that has perfect 12mm spheres and the question is, what is bad and what is still good. Issue will become the valve adjustment and holding it. Here are a few pictures of a new ball stud next to an old one that I replaced. I hope it will show the "crown" that appears when the ball is worn.. My car has approx. 98, 000 miles.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

ja17

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2019, 19:01:51 »
I have ground flat, slightly crowned ball studs, and they work just fine.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 20:32:25 »
Hi Danny,
This might not answer your question.
However, I have found the ‘shoe’, between the valve and the rocker to be worn.
On top, by the rocker AS WELL AS underneath by the valve stem riding on the shoe.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

MikeSimon

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2019, 14:17:32 »
Joe: Did you grind the ball studs while they were installed or did you take them out? Did you use the "old" rocker arms or new ones? I have another head with the ball studs not that bad and would consider grinding them instead of replacing.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

ja17

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2019, 16:56:03 »
Mike, it is safer to grind them while off of the head. In this way no grindings go onto the other parts. In fact I use my "KwickWay" valve grinding machine to do a precise job on them one at a time. However in the early days I would grind them on a regular bench grinder. Even new ball adjusters have a "flat" top and are not a perfect sphere. Consider the wear pattern and the rocker movement which wears both the ball and the rocker socket over the years. If the valves were very rarely adjusted then a non-symmetrical wear pattern would develop. When the valves finally get adjusted, the new position of the ball adjusters with sockets is uneven and not matched well. The unevenness and dissimilarities of the new mating surfaces can cause issues with the adjustment and/or noise. Regular valve adjustments keep wear patterns more even and minimal. Replacing the ball adjusters or grinding flat the crowns (only if needed), will allow more accurate adjustments and longer lasting adjustments. Realize that replacing all worn parts with new parts is best but also most expensive. Installing new ball adjusters with worn rocker arm sockets, may be another issue, and then if you use new rocker arms, then you have new rocker arms riding on an old camshaft. It can become an expensive never-ending cycle of replacing parts. Some new parts may be NLA from time to time, or different "up-dated" versions of parts can create other issues. Re-conditioning parts to conform to  factories specifications and "acceptable wear limits" requires a lot of experience and technical information. Making good judgements can allow good results without replacing everything. Good advice from others with more experience can keep your restoration cost from going out-of-sight.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

MikeSimon

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2019, 18:03:40 »
Mike,...  . Good advice from others with more experience can keep your restoration cost from going out-of-sight.

That's why I asked yo, Joe!

The issues I have experienced with the ball studs are;
a) The lower threaded part will not come out of the head. I have tried everything, long breaker bar, impact wrench etc. They will not move with considerable effort. I have also read that the threads in the aluminum head may be destroyed if you take these out. When leaving the lower part in the head and taking only the upper ball stud part out, I experience another problem:
b) The specified torque to turn these will no longer be there. I have tried a few different remedies and the best one so far is to distort the threads on the ball stud insert somewhat in a vice.

Grinding them while leaving them in the head would help a lot.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

stickandrudderman

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2019, 12:45:25 »
Just remove the central post and leave the base behind.
do not attempt to grind them in situ.

MikeSimon

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Re: Valve rocker arm and pinball adjuster issue
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2019, 13:24:55 »
Thank you "Stick"! That will result in the problem I described above. And there is no real good remedy that I have found yet. As the cylinder head is out of the car, I can give it a good cleaning!
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner