Obsessed in Perfection - Afraid to Restore Shell

[SilverSpear]

Aside from the unreachable 300SL, the Pagoda has always been my other dream car to own.
First time I saw one was a lovely Burgundy 230SL owned by my dad's best friend (God rest his soul now), and was determined that I need to own one someday, until 2011. Yes I have my Pagoda for 9 years, a German origin, exported to the US at some point then again to my country with all matching numbers and aluminum pieces in good condition. An early model if I should add, which to me is the best of all.

9 years till now, I have been sourcing parts for it from all over the World at good prices, determined to restore it to OE specs without exception. Everything should be original and standard starting from the screws to body parts and mechanicals, i.e: Was able to source a NOS Camshaft, lightly used Standard cylinder head, etc... All except the shell.

With rusty floorboards, it is literally Flintstones car. Someone tampered with it at some point, few patches here and there, a couple of accidents in front... spot welds all disappeared and both fenders replaced, one of the rear also. Body is a mess, normal welds everywhere and not sure how to restore it properly as intended by MB in 1967. Even don't trust new restorations, for I believe no one truly cares about your property more dear than you.

Cannot find an unmolested Pagoda locally to duplicate everything. Trying reaching out to Motoringinvestments for maybe they can send me high res pictures of all details needed to tackle this, but they never replied. I do have a skillful bodyshop guy who is willing to do the works (well I will need to be present on each spot weld), but I don't have the info needed for that. I am so obsessed in perfecting the shell restoration since it will be the only thing which cannot be redone easily. Even need the exact location of each bracket, weld type, spot weld, finish, etc... or else will not sleep at night if done otherwise.

Hope you don't see me as a weirdo or sick, but I am really out of options how to achieve what I want.

[johnk]

given that these bodies weren’t built by programmed computers back then I would guess that the spot weld patterns on our cars are a bit like snowflakes.  No two are exactly the same.

[JamesL]

We used to have a Lebanese member with a lovely car, if I recall
Challenger_7
If he still has his car...
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=529.msg176894#msg176894

[johnk]

What spot welds are you specifically looking for? Certainly the fenders and trunk can be visible and are looked at for originality. The floorboards are not visible even if the carpet is pulled up as they are covered by undercoating on the bottom and a rubberized sound barrier on the top. I could have sent you mine a couple months ago but they are covered up now with the sound barrier.

[SilverSpear]

Thank you James for sharing his post. Not really hard reaching out to him, hope his Pagoda is still unmolested.

It is not a matter of spot welds only, rather everything. Also if it is under the carpet, doesn't mean I need to cut corners.

Anyone has some high res pictures of important details he is willing to share? If possible, you can zip them in one folder and use wetransfer to share with me.

Thanks guys
Danny

[JamesL]

Danny
You may be as - shall we say - anal as you like (or to misname it, OCD) but you have to ask yourself, is the juice worth the squeeze? These cars evolved over time as they came out of the factory and you can make yours look just like that at HUGE cost of both time and money in research, work and parts sourcing. The price of Brabus and Kienle restorations are an example of the sort of sums that will take and they HAVE parts - and have to make compromises. Which pensioner are you going to fly in from Germany to randomly apply the fender notches by the headlights, or hand scribble the build number along the way? If you don't do those things, will your car be "perfect" in your mind?
OR
You can make a car that you can enjoy and turns heads and costs you half of what you propose to spend. The car will not ever be "original" again and as such it will always be an homage to the day it left Sindelfingen.

With time and effort the pictures you seek are out there, but I doubt from one source (though if there is one, it'll be on here!) . And with HUGE time and effort and COST, you can recreate an original shell and then start re-assembly. Then what? What happens if a key part is NLA or you need to buy a repro part rather than one MB keeps in stock? Some MB stock of panels will have been bought in from other (non-original) parties/providers. What do you choose to do about things like body-protection? It was non-existent in the '60s but today you'd want to at least try to wax the inner sills etc. What will you do about the original tyres?

The only person who will know the time, effort and cost you put in is you. That may appease your brain but will drive you bonkers , empty your pockets along the way and take years. And it won't ever pay you back. Any resto of any scale is likely to cost more than the finished value of the car (value in a sale, not to you), and the name brands (such as Kienle) can charge that on. But a small shop in your home town - not a brand name resto - will only ever be of value to you.

If the car were a particularly special Pagoda - very early VIN, or the Liege-Sofia car - you would be absolutely rewarded for the work, but for a  standard "one of 40+,000 pagodas"? You'll be admired and respected anyway for any sort of half decent restoration. But please don't drive yourself mad in the workshop. We can certainly help with all manner of questions and answers

Life is short. I admire your drive but can only advise that you compromise and enjoy your car on the road, not in a workshop. Then we can all admire your special drive...

[johnk]

I believe a member poster a year or two ago that he had a similar passion to make everything OEM as possible and he spent over $400k. He could afford it and it was worth it to him. good for him.

what I really like about this site is we all appreciate each other views questions and responses regardless of who has a $40k budget or a $400k budget.

[doitwright]

The red 250SL on the motoring investments site is about as flawless as it gets. The owner brought this car to PagodaFest in San Diego last October and I could not find a flaw on it. The owner said he started collecting replacement parts for a restoration right after he purchased it new. He was also a former 300SL owner. You should check it out. I think they raised the price 25K from when they first listed it.

[SilverSpear]

Hi James, I got your point and you are right with most of you said.

It is not the issue of correct tyres or original headlights. As a matter of fact, my car is white, with dark blue vynil and black soft top. The kind of combo which is "standard" and I hate. I already purchased a red stitched interior and a dark red soft-top. Yes it might come a surprise to you coming from an Anal guy, but in the back of my mind, such things are reversible when needed.

Non original headlights are too, actually I have a set of original Euro and another Repro. The OE's will remain in storage while I install the repros... just in case...

What matters to me are the non reversible (or non easily reversible) details such as bodywork, engine/tranny details, Rad, suspension paint, etc...

I do have the right bodywork guy. He is the kind who very very rarely cuts/removes a fender unless it is swiss cheesed from rust. He is a true artist who does actual hammer and dolly work with an end result requiring a paper thickness of filler just to cover the metal scratches. Only thing is needed are shell measurements (which I got from this fine forum) and the surface finish of both metal work and paint in ALL hidden corners.

[SilverSpear]

The red 250SL on the motoring investments site is about as flawless as it gets. The owner brought this car to PagodaFest in San Diego last October and I could not find a flaw on it. The owner said he started collecting replacement parts for a restoration right after he purchased it new. He was also a former 300SL owner. You should check it out. I think they raised the price 25K from when they first listed it.

The bold part above is the little voice in the back of my mind. Cannot stand flaws in such a car...

[Garry]

If the car is the one i think it is, then there was only one flaw and that was that the price went up twenty grand if you showed the slightest interest in it.
 

[Nicolas Aristodemou]

if you visit Cyprus, being so near to Lebanon, you can contact me to see my 280SL and share my experiences in restoration.

Nicolas

[doitwright]

If the car is the one i think it is, then there was only one flaw and that was that the price went up twenty grand if you showed the slightest interest in it.
 

As you can see in the photos of the red car  the seller is an elderly gentleman (I guess most of us are) but he was a bit "overly proud" (to put it mildly) about his car. At PagodaFest he stated he was asking $250K and Brian Peters (owner of Motoring Investments) stated at the event he felt it was the best he had seen. Now asking $275K. He had all sorts of rare accessories like a secondary tool kit (first time I ever saw one of those), fitted luggage, and the light that plugs into the engine side firewall socket.

[Shvegel]

There are few special welds on our shells and fewer still people who know where they are.  Most are just hand done spot welds which have no common spacing as they are randomly placed. The exceptions are the coolant reservoir mount which has big cold tig welds, the shock mounts which are welded across the top.

[Shvegel]

I seem to recall Stickandrudderman (Colin) posted a series of photos of an unmolested shell that had been stripped and primed.  You might want to send him a message.

[ejboyd5]

We all hope that your life and resources both last long enough to reach your goal.  Most people would start with a better body shell than the one you have described.  It seems as if you are getting more enjoyment from the journey than you will ever achieve from arrival at your intended destination.

[ageorge]

I would suggest a need to contact K&K Manufacturing. They have the dimensions and body panels that you will need.

[JN]

I suggest build it to the best level you will want to drive it!!

JN