Author Topic: Front End Alignment (Read 5207 times)

Harry · « **on:** May 17, 2020, 11:51:21 »

I have just replaced all of the rubber in the front end, including dropping the front end then reassembling. So now I need to be sure it is properly aligned. Is it reasonable to expect my local MB dealer can do? Is it something that can be done at home (measurements)?

Pawel66 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2020, 13:00:14 »

I did it with the local MB dealer, I just copied and brought them specs from BBB. I also gave them drawings on what is regulated where - but I do not think I had to do it as, I guess, this system is fairly easy to be decoded by a professional mechanic (they looked at me with a smile when I showed that). But the specs they appreciated as they would have to look for them.

They were, actually, quite excited... They spend good half an hour looking at the entire car when raised on the lift. I hope I did not get charged for that time

. They allowed me private time for free on the lift to adjust transmission pressure with my tools and my mechanic at that time.

I think any good tire service shop should do the alignment as well.

You may want just to ask them to be careful with blocking the steering wheel - explain this old plastic may crack if too much tension is put on it.

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2020, 13:31:46 »

It depends how far you want to go.
Part of proper alignment is to check correct front wishbone angle (to give correct ride height) and rear camber (adjusted by replacing spring rubbers. Adjusting castor is something a lot of alignment places are not familiar with in my experience. A good pagoda specialist will know all this but if you just want tracking done then anywhere should be fine.

Aaron h · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2020, 20:36:25 »

Harry, there is NO ONE at our local dealership that can do an alignment on a Pagoda, much less even now what a Pagoda is. The shop forman, Kelly, would know, but he's under the thumb of his boss, so he wouldn't be allowed to help. I was recently told that anything over 10-12 years old they were to turn away. However, there is a place in Oak Ridge that understands how to do the alignments on these. I can't remember the name of the company, so I'll have to do some research.

Other shops will claim they can do an alignment, but they don't know how to properly adjust the caster. To adjust the caster the rear cross member of the transmission mount, the slip joint on the driveshaft, and the transverse lateral support rod for the sub frame all have to be loosened before any adjustments are made on Caster. This is because when the caster is adjusted the whole sub frame and engine move. When these shops don't to that you'll end up with a vibration that won't go away, as well as constant deterioration of flex discs and drive shaft center support bushings.

mbzse · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2020, 10:07:25 »

In addition to what Aaron writes, a general tip is to set the caster at max possible, especially when your car is fitted with power steering.
This results in a smooth, "stable feel" in the car on the road.
This means, the flats on the excenter bolts are parallel to the length of the car or pointing slightly out, towards the headlights one can say.
See pic attached.
Please note also, the threaded fittings for caster adjust on the upper knuckle of the king pin should be set to "middle" position.
Its purpose is only to adjust minor caster deviances between left and right side. Do not use in order to adjust caster as a whole!

mbzse · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2020, 10:12:27 »

Quote from: Pawel66

.../...You may want just to ask them to be careful with blocking the steering wheel - explain this old plastic may crack if too much tension is put on it

The centering of the steering is best done with the alignment tool (M8x1 threaded pin); not the steering wheel.
See attached (Courtesy of 66and blue)

Harry · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2020, 13:43:28 »

Thanks all. Aaron - please let me know who the alignment shop is in Oak Ridge! Sending you a PM.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2020, 13:16:40 »

We have some tips here below on how to do the front alignment in our cars. I need to do it, so wanted to pull together procedure for the MB folks. The question I have is what exactly to loosen before caster adjustment:

1. Lateral strut holding subframe, the one next to the steering damper
2. Rear engine mount - I understand the cross member, not the rubber mount itself

What about:
1. Drive shaft slip joint - I did not see it in the BBB - should it be loosened?
2. Subframe mounts - should they be loosened too? Which screws exactly?

I got the centering advise, no issue, and I understand what Hans is advising on front location of the cam bolts.

PeterPortugal · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2020, 22:45:35 »

Hi Pawel,

Did you work the answers out to your 4 questions above?

I have exactly the same situation now. What to loosen to move the subframe?

Regards

Peter

Pawel66 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 24, 2020, 00:16:38 »

Peter,

I followed strictly the BBB and if I remember correctly, I losened lateral strut, drive shaft nut and the rear engine or transmission mount.

Then I did the exercise as during drive shafty removal and re-assembly - snagged it, rolled the car, rocked the car and tightened when car was standing on four wheels.

More of that adve nturd in my thread castor trouble.

garymand · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2020, 17:50:46 »

Glad you guys are still here! Thanks for the steering box centering tool reminder mbzse. Like most of the work on this 67 250SL, I decided to learn how to do all the adjustments. Toe, Caster, Camber. I found the right tire was toed in 3 degrees, positive Camber 2 degrees. That was from the last "technician's work. (He also left that keeper off and stripped the teeth on the drivers side.) I got all three in spec with driveshaft nut, motor mounts, tranny mount, and cross link all loose.

I ran into 2 problems on the rear end. Note: the rearend was replaced with a new factory one in 1972 at a dealer. Camber is zero.
1. I made a tool to center the rearend, but when my rearend is centered, the drivers side tire is touching the fender and the passenger tire is a few inches inward. I ended up making the tire to fender caps equal. ??
2. Toe in is about 3 degrees! It has only maybe 20K miles since 1972 when all the rear bushings and mounts were renewed (at about 90K miles). I pulled the two front do-nut bushings off and rotated them 180 degrees to no effect.

What am I missing? Did I make the tool wrong? what would cause the toe in?

By the way, I just pulled the injectors (1969 vintage) reverse flushed and pressure tested them Wow, all spaying beautifully. Put a wide band O2 sensor on and adjusted the FI pump. All those adjustments responded well.

Thannks in advance,

mauro12 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2021, 22:44:45 »

Hi guys , it seems that in all tire shops I went , they didn’t have in their sistem the w113 car . It’s quite strange , the oldest model they had was the 350sl r107 from 1971. I think the w109 and 108 should have a very similar alignment specs to the w113 series . Would be nice once for all if somebody could draw in the technical manual the specifications for the wheel alignment . By doing this it would make much easier for all of us to have the correct alignment for our cars . In the meantime ,if you could write down here the specs for the alignment it would be great . Thank you guys

Pawel66 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2021, 05:44:43 »

Here you may find what you need: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=30522.msg221276#msg221276

or here: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=3563.msg21186#msg21186

I think a lot of these things are here, it is about searching for it a bit. Please also make sure the shop follows the procedure, particularly for caster adjustment - there are several steps to follow in case of our cars that the shops would not know.

mauro12 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2021, 08:50:35 »

I realised that tire shops here they don’t want to mess up with such old cars . Is it possible that camber and caster or out of adjustment ? I recently replaced subframe and motor mounts, sway bar bushing and shocks . Before doing this job , my front camber was slightly out of adjustment in the front right wheel, caster we didn’t check and the rear wheel camber was 1.5 degrees positive and right wheel 2.5 positive ( they should be the same ).
Is is possible that after this new bushings the car will go within the right specs ?
Another question is , is it possible somehow to set the toe for the rear wheels? How the rear toe is affected ?

Bconley759 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2021, 18:39:06 »

What is BBB?

Pawel66 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2021, 19:26:24 »

Big Blue Book - the Daimler workshop manual.

Bconley759 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2021, 22:47:13 »

Ah, Thanks new to all this.

DavidAPease · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2021, 00:04:26 »

Just a little historical insight: Back when I "coined" the term BBB, we were often using the name "Big Blue Bible".

-David

Bconley759 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 05, 2021, 22:13:26 »

Wish I could find one (BBB).

Pawel66 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2021, 07:48:55 »

Should be quite a few on e bay. I would also post in Wanted to Buy.

Worth also checking for reprint in Mercedes shop on-line from time to time.

To note: there are two BBBs. One is for cars from 68 (/8), one is for cars before that. To have it really complete, you need both as the 68 one does not contain everything.

All of this is explained in detail in posts on this forum.

News:

Author Topic: Front End Alignment (Read 5207 times)

Aaron h

Bconley759

Bconley759

Bconley759