Obscure French content question

[lowpad]

Just for fun, I've been updated my French market car to its original lighting (yellow bulbs, French taillamps with amber backup).  Thanks to this extraordinarily useful forum, I was able to diagnose why my internal foglamps weren't working (no fuses in small fusebox alongside the brake booster).  In the process, however, I've discovered that the foglamps only work on the first position (ie, running lights) and not the 2nd position (full headlights).  Based on the instruction manual, the foglamps should come on in both positions, but it does note that lighting functionality is subject to regional regulations.  Does anyone know if this anomaly is unique to French equipment (code 429)?  Thanks. 

[FGN59]

I don’t know about regulations, but driving with high beams in the fog results in a totally blinding situation, where the white fog reflects the light back into the driver’s eyes, while low beams result in a much more ‘drivable’ situation, made somewhat better with fog lights that improve visibility at ground level. Indeed, when the fog is really thick, the only thing one can see is the ground directly ahead of the car. Having said that, I find it more comfortable to drive with high beams and fog lights on at night on narrower roads, as the latter have a wider angle and improve visibility of the roadsides. Always worried about wildlife crossing the road. And my daily driver is an Audi purchased in Germany, so high beams and fog lights can be used with each other 

[lowpad]

Thanks for the response.  I was unclear in my note — by the 2nd, or “full headlight” position, I just meant that with the headlamps on (in either low or high beam setting) that the fog lamps were disabled (though still operable with the running lamps on).  Your knowledge of French homologation rules, I’m sure, is far better than mine, but my memory from living in France in the late 1970s is that people would typically turn on their running lights (rather than headlamps) when driving in urban environments at night (completely understandable given the available street lighting — and very respectful of other drivers).  I am wondering if this is somehow the reason for the fog lamps not being operable when the headlamps are on. 

I actually didn’t actually do this for any practical reason (I doubt that the small internal fog lamps have any discernible benefit in fog (as opposed to serious bumper-mounted fog lamps)), but I wanted to restore the full functionality of the lighting system, which was somehow disabled by someone removing the fog lamp fuse.  It’s interesting to me that the “pull and twist” function of the fog lamps on our Pagodas is exactly the same as the 2008 E350 that also sits in my garage.  Now that’s brand consistency!

[FGN59]

Fog lamps are more and more common, but still not standard on cars sold in France. Years ago on cars equipped with fog lamps they would activate only with the low beam headlights, and would automatically deactivate if you switched to high beams. Now you can keep them on with high beams too, but they will not activate with running lights only.

Concerning running lights, I’m not even sure what the current regulations are. I believe it is still allowed to drive only with running lights in a lighted area, and I must say this is what I do most of the time. Assuming the lighting is good enough, and the weather is cooperating, running lights are in my opinion sufficient to identify other moving cars (otherwise -maybe- you have no business driving at night).

A while ago (maybe 15 or 20 years?) the authorities started a trial period, where they required cars to drive with headlights on (low beams) at all times (as in Holland, Slovenia, and a few other countries). But that didn’t stick, I don’t know why.
Beginning of the nineties, we had to switch from yellow headlights to white. Although I drove several older cars with their original yellow lights until last year (when I sold both cars), not once was I stopped, let alone ticketed. And I don’t see how white lights make for better lighting, but they certainly are more blinding in cross traffic.

I don’t dislike being French, but I have a hard time understanding some of the idiosyncrasies that come with this nationality! Custom, history, tradition, all this I understand and enjoy (not just in France), so-called Gallic flair (!) maybe sometimes or in some specific areas, but there is a certain type of Mediterranean insouciance (in a country where the majority is hardly Mediterranean), an absence of focus on results, and a fierce desire to do things in our own way, and to resist following rules, or work together, which I find infuriating.

All of which took me very far from fog lights on French-registered German Pagodas...

[lowpad]

Francois,

Thank you for your very thoughtful answer!  As a long-time Francophile (we are right now watching the TV show “Call My Agent,” wherein French culture is on full and very humorous display), the idiosyncrasies of French life are what make France such a great country -- at least for foreigners (both my wife and I have lived there and when I was working in Germany in the late 1990s, we escaped across the border as often as we could ...). 

For some time, I’ve been trying to understand the detailed specific content behind option code 629 for the 230SL.  I have managed to convert my car to yellow lamps as well as track down a NOS set of French tail lamps (with amber backup lamps (why they were made amber is beyond me because the illumination must have been non-existent ...)), but I’m sure that there are other details as well. 

I hope you are having a nice spring to enjoy your Pagoda.

[MikeSimon]

Usually, in Europe, the fog lamps in cars were switched trough a relay that was connected to the low beam circuit. Fog lamps by law in many countries were supposed to come on only with low beams, go off with high beam.

[mdsalemi]

There's a couple of good reasons why the fogs only worked with low beams...if it was foggy enough where you needed fog lamps, putting on high beams would be devastating to your vision. The other reason probably to do with power consumption and the need for aux relays, etc.

Years ago there were requirements for driving with your low beams on in daylight in many places, as was pointed out. Today, most cars have DRLs or daytime running lights that are reduced and separate lighting circuits from headlamps. All of our Fords have high power xenon headlamps that kind of explosively ignite instead of just power on; the DRLs are strips of small white LEDs around the headlamps.

[FGN59]

Last year we travelled from Provence (where we live) to Greece by way of Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and North Macedonia, driving a 1994 Toyota Landcruiser, which looks and sounds and weighs a little bit like an army tank (except much more comfortable), but has no DRL. So, as is our habit, we didn't have lights on during our day driving. Out of all these different countries, the Slovenian police stopped us about half an hour after we had entered their country, to tell us that you have to drive with headlights on (low beams obviously) AT ALL TIMES, no exception! They were very nice, but very serious. All others let us drive the way we wanted. So I came away from this experience with a first lesson: 'when in Rome do as the Romans do', but also a second: 'to each his own'. Nothing new under the sun I guess (but a wonderful trip).

[lowpad]

Sorry, I'm still not being sufficiently clear.  I fully understand why fog lamps don't work with high beams -- makes perfect sense.  On my French car, however, the fog lamps only work with the running lights, not with the headlamps on.  In other words, the fog lamps illuminate at position 1 (running lights), but don't work at position 2 (headlights on), either at low or high beam.  I am just curious if this is something unique to French market cars. 

[FGN59]

Sorry too, got carried away with the story telling...
From a practical point of vue, speaking for myself only (I don't know about the actual regulations, past or present) I've never had a car that is rigged the way you describe: fog lights generally work only with headlights on at the same time (historically, only with low beams, and get disconnected if high beams are selected; now I see more and more cars where you can use the fog lights with high beams, although as several of us have noted, this really does not improve visibility when driving in actual fog), and do not work with running lights only. Maybe the wiring in your car got mixed up over time? (I've not looked at the wiring diagram specifically, but sometimes during maintenance work wires that have been disconnected later get reconnected to the wrong terminal). If you need help reading the wiring diagram, I or others can help.

[MikeSimon]

Coming back to my post, I suggest you check the relay. I believe whoever wired the fog lights tapped into the running light circuit by mistake. Change the connection over to the low beam circuit and you will be fine. It is only one wire you have to change. I doubt France had a different setting for the fog lights than the rest of Europe.

[opopotts]

I believe that French regulations require on the yellow  lights on in town

[RobSirg]

Off topic, but I notice that Francoise has a US Spec car and lives in France, whereas, "lowpad" has a French Spec car but lives in the USA.

For more serendipity...…. last week I connected with 'Sebastian' on this forum who also has a 1967, 4 speed, 250SL in Tunis Beige - exactly like mine but LHD (he is based in Germany). For comparison of options, etc, we exchanged datacards and the production date stamped on my datacard is Sebastian's actual Birth Date!

I would have gladly swapped cars if they were both the same handing. 

[Benz Dr.]

There's a couple of good reasons why the fogs only worked with low beams...if it was foggy enough where you needed fog lamps, putting on high beams would be devastating to your vision. The other reason probably to do with power consumption and the need for aux relays, etc.

Years ago there were requirements for driving with your low beams on in daylight in many places, as was pointed out. Today, most cars have DRLs or daytime running lights that are reduced and separate lighting circuits from headlamps. All of our Fords have high power xenon headlamps that kind of explosively ignite instead of just power on; the DRLs are strips of small white LEDs around the headlamps.

I still remember trying to explain my DRL's to a southern State Trooper. He actually had to test my car it before he believed me. Somehow, " Those are not headlights officer " just didn't cut it.