Bring a Trailer

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

While not directly Pagoda related, thought this might be of interest
Hearst Auto acquired Bring a Trailer


https://classicmotorsports.com/news/media-conglomerate-hearst-autos-acquires-bring-trailer/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=What+s+Next%3F+The+New+Wave+of+Collector+Cars&utm_campaign=CMS+Daily+Newsletter+Automation+Email

[SEB]

From time to time I can find on Bring a Trailer really very nice cars. My question is, due to the fact that I am living in Germany is possible to purchase there a car and not loosing money?

Does has anybody some experience?

Many thanks in advance!
Sebastian

[scoot]

Sebastian, for all intents and purposes Bring a Trailer is now just an auction site.  You still need to coordinate with the seller to have a car shipped to Germany, import it, etc.  It would be the same as buying from any other individual.   BaT does nothing to facilitate the transaction.

[MikeSimon]

BaT is a seller's marketplace. Look at auctions of vehicles you are familiar with and for which you can estimate a fair value. You will see that the prices are 30% above that level, some times more.
So, yes, you can "lose money" buying on BaT.

[scoot]

BaT is a seller's marketplace. Look at auctions of vehicles you are familiar with and for which you can estimate a fair value. You will see that the prices are 30% above that level, some times more.
So, yes, you can "lose money" buying on BaT.

I think that BaT has a lot of people with too much time and money buying cars for too much.  That being said, I've seen some bargains happen there as well.  If BaT brings 30% above fair market value, why isn't everything listed there?  Because people don't want to take 100 photos?  Some guy will come do that from BaT for $100 or something like that. 

[JamesL]

I sold my SLK32 on a similar site for the very reason that during lockdown people (blokes) had too much time and likely too many beers
I shipped the car to their depot and they did all the photos etc. I just gave it a clean before it went

[specracer]

Whats listed is "curated", your car has to be selected. You cant just pay the $95 and get it listed.

If BaT brings 30% above fair market value, why isn't everything listed there?

[SEB]

BaT is a seller's marketplace. Look at auctions of vehicles you are familiar with and for which you can estimate a fair value. You will see that the prices are 30% above that level, some times more.
So, yes, you can "lose money" buying on BaT.

Scott! Many thanks for this information.
My concern is such case is the security of such purchase. So the case that you transfer money and do not get the car? How you can procede in such case in the US?
Does take any responsibility or give some support in such case BaT?
How big is the BaT’s commission?

[Iconic]

How big is the BaT’s commission?

5% up to a maximum of $5000. Buyer pays on top of his/her bid amount.
I've sold two cars through BaT for good money and I found, what I consider, a slight bargain for a purchase.
I'm thrilled with BaT. They have added a fun new dimension to the old car fun.
I don't know how much help BaT would be if there were problems with the sale/purchase. All of my transactions went smoothly.
The transactions are between the buyer and seller, so choose your car and seller wisely.

[SEB]

I think I am getting older. As I was young chap I was in fact more optimistic. Now I have always to consider the worst case ( no car for payment) and as non US Citizen/ Resident my position is of course weak in such situation.

Solution is to use a US Trustee? Does anybody know such trustee?

Of course the trustee commission increasing the total costs but in case of big transaction is like insurance.

BTW- Do you know who a pessimist is? It is a former optimist with life experience.

[GM]

There is this
https://www.escrow.com/cars
I have no experience with the service. Caveat emptor!

[SEB]

Garry! Thank you very much! I will study this solution!

[Vander]

I have listed many cars on BaT, including many W113. I am a big fan of the platform, but it is not the end all be all.  Some cars bring market value, some fall completely short of the mark and then I realize fair value in other venues. To get full value, you have to put a lot of time and effort into presentation with full transparency showing both the positive and negative. We are working on the final drafts of a car now that will go live in a few days. We hired a professional photographer to shoot 250+ shots of the car, we photographed underneath the car. We also recorded 3 videos showing engine running, all of the features operating properly etc. Pretty much make it as if the bidder was there checking out everything himself. This can be quite a labor intensive task for an individual just wanting to sell their car. Do less, have less bids.

SEB- I would say every other Mercedes I sell goes international including some to Germany. What BaT recommends, and what we do is after the auction is concluded we contact the winning bidder to obtain their information and type up a Bill of Sale putting everything in writing. We also include a copy of the free and clear, transferable title. After the winning bidder signs it and e-mails a copy back then they send the wire transfer. After that they hire a broker to arrange international shipping and customs for their particular country. We work with the shipping company to provide whatever they need for a smooth process.

[PeterPortugal]

SEB I used the shipping company CFR Rinkens to transport a car to Europe. They also handled collecting it from the seller and paying for it using the escrow technique.

[scoot]

Scott! Many thanks for this information.
My concern is such case is the security of such purchase. So the case that you transfer money and do not get the car? How you can procede in such case in the US? Does take any responsibility or give some support in such case BaT?

BaT in itself provides no security that seller will provide car when buyer pays.  There are (as others have mentioned) escrow services.  I have never used those.  I would be concerned also.  Particularly if the seller is someone "new" and "unknown" to the community.  You can click on the seller and see their history.

[SEB]

Peter! Many thanks! If they are able to organize also the domestic shipment. Do to the seller, pay for the car and pick it up it will be a perfect solution.

[SEB]

Scot! I did  not know this function. Due to my reserve regarding the safety of the payment and no US partner who can make to payment in my name and also the transportation to the harbor I was not analyzing deeply this side.

But it is true, that there are a lot of great cars.

[mgmoore]

Hi Folks,

In my opinion BAT is great. I really like the variety of cars on there, the anorak knowledge and some fantastic driving video's ...look out for the 911 video's in particular -Wow!

Bought a totally original, untouched 230sl via BAT three years ago, still have it and the car was exactly as described. Many of the sl113.org members left comments on the BAT site as i was bidding which was reassuring. Some cars occasionally go for a big price, but in general 95% of them are market value or less. Great site, trust it and will use it again.

Best,

Matt

[FastWgn]

Bringing a bit of a counterpoint to the BaT love....

As many have stated, there are of course both good and bad cars on BaT, and "in general" the whole idea with an auction is to try to get two (or more) people into a bidding war, loose their calm, and overpay. There is a reason there is an economic theory called "Winner's curse"...
Many cars on baT are today sold by dealers, so there is limited true owner interaction. I much prefer to have the contact with the prior owner, you are buying the owner as much as you are buying the car.
In my experience it's harder to arrange a test drive, PPI etc on BaT than on a normal for sale ad or website. Simply because there is the artricifically created sense of "short time".  I have yet to buy a car on the site (after trying on a few) and really don't plan to do so unless it's a local car. And almost every single car that is for sale there is also for sale at a normal website.

That said - I will sell cars on the site. The same things that work against you as a buyer clearly works for you as a seller.  As long as you are willing and ready to deal with all the comments and (many times) irrelevant and pontificating statements made in the comment field.
As Vander states above, listing a car WELL on BaT is a lot of work.

But, to be truthful - I love browsing the site! Easiest place on the Internet to loose a couple of hours of your life! Love that part of it.

And then there is Cars and Bids, more focused on newer cars (80s forward) but basically the same thing as BaT.

[SEB]

I start this discussion BAT, so maybe I give some comments also from the European point of view.
Thank you all for your inputs and the interesting information regarding BAT and import of cars from USA.

I have to tell you, that for instance in Germany we have a generations shift and the prices for the cars from the 50ies and 60ies has negative trend (for instance in case of  Pagodas about -10 to 20% compare to the last year).

In some cases I do not observe this on BAT- so it is better for us and cheaper to buy in Europe and avoid all the mentioned risks.

But where do you can buy directly cars in US from the owners?
Sebastian

[Cees Klumper]

Hi Sebastian - my main source for cars and motorcycles is Craigslist. That is where I found 5 of our current 6 vehicles, both modern (Volvo C70 and BMW C650) and older (86 300 ZX, '90 Bronco II and '76 Yamaha 650XS). Only our 2011 BMW Z4 I found on Cargurus. All were bought from private sellers, all great and 'clean' experiences. Also have sold to private individuals on Craigslist: my BMW G310R, an outboard motor and an icemaker. Each time to a private indivudual and each time a clean and good transaction. But if you are not local, it is probably not a good marketplace, because of the risk of scams. For example, this is probably a scam:

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/d/van-nuys-1988-mustang-50-lx-1-owner-68k/7149589245.html

But this probably isn't:

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/inglewood-1968-ford-mustang/7136698338.html

[SEB]

Hello Cees,
Many thanks for this advice. I think, that the best way always is to have a local friend who can check all the details.

Best wishes
Sebastian