Author Topic: Fuel Expansion Tank (Read 5727 times)

hansr433 · « **on:** July 02, 2020, 06:40:20 »

In searching the forum, I did not find a relevant specific thread in the W111 sub-section. I have occasional gas smell in the cabin, particularly after a fill-up. The lines to my expansion tank are general see-through plastic tubing and I am missing the rubber end piece on the vent hose that drops through the trunk floor. I am attaching photos from the EPC for W111 and W113 cars. The rubber end pieces are different. Could someone post photos of their actual installation, and if the rubber piece from the W111 EPC (angled) is correct, how is it actually mounted? Thanks

wwheeler · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2020, 17:16:19 »

On my 280SE W111, the angled rubber vent (first picture) is on the lower side of the driver's rear quarter panel and behind the bumper. Maybe the earlier ones are different. The lower picture looks like the vent rubber on my '60 220SE W128 Ponton coupe. That one mounts in the filler cavity near the filler neck. It also has a metal "Wishbone" shaped piece inside the rubber sleeve.

Hopefully that helps.

hansr433 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2020, 11:21:42 »

Wallace, thanks for your reply. Would you be able to post a photo of how this looks on your W111? Does it just hang down?

wwheeler · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2020, 03:31:36 »

I will try to get a pic tomorrow. But basically the end of the rubber vent with the tube that sticks up is toward the expansion tank inside the trunk. The grommet end of the rubber vent fits on the outside of the rear quarter panel. So it is more or less flush on the outside. You should have a 1" or so hole in your quarter panel on the lower left side just to the inside of where the rear bumper is. If not, either your quarter panel has been replaced or your W111 doesn't use this type of vent.

wwheeler · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2020, 15:22:15 »

Hans,

Here are the pics. 1) inside the trunk with the tank connections. 2) outside the left rear quarter. Mine is a early '68 and the part number for my rubber grommet is #108 471 00 81.

Looking at the EPC, it looks like your '63 (111023) should also have this angled boot but it is not always correct. The (111012) uses the earlier boot like my Ponton and is #111 471 01 81.

Do you have the expansion tank on your car now?

Hopefully that helps.

hansr433 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2020, 16:12:38 »

Wallace, thanks ever so much for taking these photos. My expansion tank is much different than yours and the vent opening is on the bottom of the trunk, and not the rear. I must have the early version used in the pontoons and early W111s. The vent tube simply goes through the grommet in the floor opening and remains open. See the photos. Your trunk also seems to have been lined. Based on your photos, I will be ordering the cone type rubber plug, remove the rubber grommet from the bottom hole and pull the cone up from underneath the car in order to firmly seat it. Somehow having the cone and vent tube dangle in the wind does not seem very "Mercedes".

wwheeler · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2020, 19:05:02 »

Could also be that US emissions expansion tanks are different. Not sure. Yes, that cone grommet should work. You should be able to confirm using the part number I gave you. Neimoller has part drawings on their site and you can find it with the part number. I think you will find it should match your set up. https://www.niemoeller.de/en/w111/w111-014-mercedes-benz-220seb/B014/470101/

The one on my Ponton has a metal piece inside the grommet facing outward. It's shape reminds me of "wishbone" from a turkey. Yours should have that also I would think.

Good luck.

PeterPortugal · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2020, 17:56:17 »

Hi Hans,

My car has the circular hole in the rear fender / wing which Wallace's 68 coupe has but it was missing the grommet. I actually thought this was for the number plate light wiring (for cars with Euro bumpers).

My car also has the hole which you use but no grommet. Currently the pipe just lies in the trunk !

Regards

Peter

wwheeler · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2020, 17:59:46 »

I believe the hole for the Euro L. plate light is on the back wall behind the bumper and on the left side.

Peter, is your car a US model?

PeterPortugal · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2020, 20:20:58 »

I don't really know Wallace.

According to the datacard it was delivered to a dealer in Germany but the car had been in California shortly before I bought it in Dubai. It has the side markers, federal headlamps, US spec rear number plate lights, mph speedometer, etc. However the car has been extensively messed with. It is black when it should be white, has the wrong colour interior. it's definitely had a few knocks too !

It was one of those cars that I got for a very low price but has turned out to be quite expensive !!

hansr433 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2020, 21:35:04 »

Quote from: wwheeler on July 04, 2020, 19:05:02

Could also be that US emissions expansion tanks are different. Not sure. Yes, that cone grommet should work. You should be able to confirm using the part number I gave you. Neimoller has part drawings on their site and you can find it with the part number. I think you will find it should match your set up. https://www.niemoeller.de/en/w111/w111-014-mercedes-benz-220seb/B014/470101/

The one on my Ponton has a metal piece inside the grommet facing outward. It's shape reminds me of "wishbone" from a turkey. Yours should have that also I would think.

Good luck.

Wallace, what is the function of that metal piece? Can you post a photo of this plug?

thanks

wwheeler · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2020, 00:23:12 »

Peter,

Unless somebody HAD to put the side markers on in order to bring the car into the US, I cannot imagine why anybody would voluntarily. They really detract from the lines of the car IMHO.

Hans,

See attached picture of my fuel filler cavity. Keep in mind this is a Ponton coupe, not a W111. You can see the grommet side of the boot. Its number is #120 471 02 81 and should be available.

You can also see the tip of the metal part protruding out of the boot. I have no idea what it does honestly. The metal part is called a strainer and is number #120 471 06 35 and is NLA from Mercedes.

I have attached the fuel tank page from the EPC for my 128037 coupe. You can see part #28 is the boot and #29 is the metal strainer.

Hopefully that helps!

hansr433 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2020, 16:12:43 »

Wallace, thank you for posting these. The fact that 2 types of rubber grommets are shown in the W111 parts manuals leads me t believe that the early W111 design was carried over from the Ponton and then revised later to match the W113, at the same time relocating the hole for the breathing tube from the trunk floor to the left rear panel just behind the bumper bracket. I think that the metal piece you have serves to stop debris from blocking the breathing tube. To find one will be a fun exercise....

PeterPortugal · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2020, 20:55:08 »

Wallace, I agree. They look hideous and at some point mine will be deleted !

hansr433 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2020, 12:03:53 »

I am replacing the lines from filler neck to expansion tank to vent which the restorer installed since they are obviously the wrong type. I have been told to get stiff plastic vacuum lines. Would anyone know if these are 1x6 or 1x8? Pawel from this board kindly sent me a MB part number, A 000 987 27 27, but at EUR 7-8 per meter I am going with generic parts. My local hardware store sells this stuff at E.25/m. There is nothing magical about the MB part except the price.

wwheeler · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2020, 19:42:53 »

Here is what I found on my ‘68. It may be the same for your ‘63 not sure.
- The two plastic lines on the tank going to the filler neck area are 5.5mm outside diameter. I cannot measure the ID, but that doesn’t really matter. The OD is what fits into the grommets.
- But the tube going from the tank to the atmospheric vent grommet (on the quarter panel) is a 6.5mm OD and is bigger.
-Since you have the earlier long skinny boot, I measured the tube going into that boot on my W128 Ponton. It is steel tubing but measures 5mm on the OD and smaller than all. I would bet the 5.5 mm plastic tubing would fit just fine in that though.

You should be able to measure what tubing OD you need in the grommets and tank by using a drill bit to find the size that fits snuggly.

hansr433 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2020, 15:42:08 »

In possibly concluding this thread, I have just finished rebuilding the fuel tank expansion system and the fuel venting system and thought it might be helpful to post a "how-to" for early W111 cars. I have a 111.023 Cabrio but this should apply to the early coupe and sedan as well. Later cars have the closed-loop black pouch-like expansion tank and a different venting arrangement.

I sourced 3 rubber parts from Niemoeller; other suppliers carry the parts as well. Service from Niemoeller was professional and quick.

In addition, I used a silicone based spray as lubricant and got my tubing from a motorcycle shop and my local hardware store. MB sells tubing at multiples of what I paid. The textile frayed a bit at the edges when cutting and this could be fixed with an open flame or some glue/varnish. For an ultra-ultra clean installation, a friend machined some end caps for me out of black anodized aluminium for the fuel lines on my BMW bikes, but I have no spares left.

Parts List:

1 x D 47 101 grommet (111 997 22 81) €7.34, guides 2 tubes through hole between trunk and filler neck
1 x C 47 027 rubber boot breather pipe €14.50, vents expansion tank and hangs below trunk
1 x A 54 225 rubber grommet €1.55, guides vent tube through hole in trunk floor
50cm textile wrapped rubber fuel hose OD 10mm, ID 5mm, €2.00 from motorcycle shop for making various connections
2m plastic vaccum tubing OD 5mm, €3.00 from hardware store

The restoration shop that worked on my car had connected the wrong expansion tank nipple to the venting pipe. The correct connections for the half-moon plastic expansion tank are that the 2 nipples that are together connect to the filler neck, the single nipple vents through the floor. You can see that there is an internal plastic construction that is open at the top and ends at the single nipple. In other words, any spilled gasoline is trapped in the expansion tank while the fumes can exit through the top. I used the rubber tubing to connect the vacuum line to the various nipples. Total time, not including shopping, was under 30 minutes.

I tried all afternoon to post this with photos without success, so here is a drobox link to the pictures:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9tuw64ppccfkncp/AACts5SGVZbnHn8kTf_f_Dc3a?dl=0

wwheeler · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2020, 16:16:33 »

I added W111 to the subject title so others who don't want to read W11X material in the unread notice will know to stay clear. Probably a good idea to do so in the future.

Now back to the topic.... I have used super glue on the ends of cloth braided hoses to keep them from unraveling. If you get the thicker variety, it won't run all over the place. I am surprise the grommet through the floor wasn't held in place by the groove on the larger diameter of the part and the way it is on my W128. But clearly the hole in the floor isn't big enough for that. Anyway that tubing looks so much better and good job!

hansr433 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2020, 16:44:57 »

Thanks Wallace, well done even though the thread shows up only under the W11x main chapter.

Crazy glue works, wax works, cauterizing the edges with a flame works with dealing with the frayed edges.

BTW, a great way of installing rubber parts in tight places is to use hairspray. While it is wet, it lubricates. When it evaporates, it turns into glue and the rubber parts will have to be cut off. I use this method to install rubber grips on motorcycle handlebars, where you do not want the grips to rotate after installation.

PeterPortugal · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2020, 08:40:11 »

Hi Hans,

Thanks for posting the pictures, it is a very good reference.

My chassis is slightly later than yours and the installation "as it is" is like Wallace's 68 Coupe.

I am going to see if I can find any evidence that this has been retrofitted.

Regards

Peter

wwheeler · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2020, 21:50:41 »

I ran across this at Authentic Classics. I wonder if this is the correct grommet for the early fuel vent tube? The description indicates it is correct for the 220SEb.

https://www.authenticclassics.com/Mercedes-Fuel-Evaporation-Canister-Vent-Boot-p/auth-007111.htm

hansr433 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2020, 05:44:59 »

Quote from: wwheeler on August 01, 2020, 21:50:41

I ran across this at Authentic Classics. I wonder if this is the correct grommet for the early fuel vent tube? The description indicates it is correct for the 220SEb.

https://www.authenticclassics.com/Mercedes-Fuel-Evaporation-Canister-Vent-Boot-p/auth-007111.htm

Wallace, it looks identical to the part that I sourced from Niemoeller and installed C 47 027. Prices are comparable, but being in the US, ordering from a US supplier is cheaper for you.

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Author Topic: Fuel Expansion Tank (Read 5727 times)