Newbie seeking help..

[n/a]

Hi.

I would like to know some information, and would like to ask you experts for some of your opinions, if you don't  mind.  I have been checking out a 1966 230SL for sale.  I am familiar with cars, I have several cars already, mainly British.

1.  What is the parts availability for 230SL's?  Are there certain things that are going to be outrageously expensive?  How about rear suspention, fuel pump?

2.  The SL in question has a 4 speed manual.  What can I expect in the area of RPM's at speed?  Say at 65mph, what kind of revs will the engine be pulling?  I have not had a chance to drive the car yet, so I wanted to get an idea what to expect.

3.  British cars are notorious for electric problems.  How are the electrics on a '66 Mercedes?  Will this be a nightmare?

4.  I understand sill rot is definetely a no-no on a 230SL.  Any other things to look for?  I understand the boot is very critical as far as rot goes, floorboards too, right?

Guys, please forgive me for asking so many questions.  I really like this car, but I want to educate myself before making an offer.  So, any help from you all would greatly be appreciated...

Regards,
joe

[Douglas]

joe,

here's a good primer online:

http://www.silverstarrestorations.com/w113.htm

also, the electrical system is not an issue. it's bosch, not lucas!

best of luck to you with the 230 SL -- a good stick-shift 230 SL is a joy.



Douglas Kim
New York, NY
#018260

[ja17]

Hello Joe,
Mercedes has done a fine job of keeping parts available for these cars. In addition there are many other good suppliers and rebuilders for these cars.  Chrome parts are expensive. However if the car is complete you might only need some re-conditioning. Most major components like the injection pump will rebuild just fine. These cars also share many mechanical parts with the more common sedans of the era, so a good supply of used parts is still available. A complete frame and pan restoration,  because of rust damage, could be expensive. A major engine rebuild could also get pricey. If you do some work yourself you will always save lots. Electrical problems are rare. The nice thing about these cars are they are very well engineered. They are very drivable despite being forty years old. Things that you fix will usually stay fixed. These cars will continue to appreciate. There are many 230-SL owners on this list who can give you a lot of good tips.


Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Cees Klumper]

As a general rule: get the best car you can afford, unless you can and plan to do restoration work yourself.

As for RPM's - these cars have unusually high-revving engines, particularly for a 6-cylinder. Depending on the rear-axle ratio, I believe you are looking at around 3800-4200 RPM at 65 MPH. When I drove my 280 SL for the first time, at first I thought the automatic transmission was refusing to go into fourth. Anyway, you get used to it, I should know because I have a preference for low-revving engines, but now that I have owned my SL for a couple of years, I have gotten fond of the engine "roar".
As Joe says: once something is properly fixed on these cars, it will stay fixed. I drive my car anywhere, hundreds of miles a day sometimes.

[n/a]

Thank you all for the information and the links.

Another question comes to mind:  is it hard to find the original Shop Manuals (including electics schematics) for the 230SL?  I do my own maintenance on my cars, and for every car I have, I own the appropriate shop manuals.

The 230SL I am looking at does not have A/C or the hard top.  It is in very good shape, price range in the $15k neighbourhood.  I know that its hard to say without looking at it, but is this a good ballpark figure?

Thanks again!

joe

[Douglas]

sounds like a reasonable ballpark figure for a rust-free car.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
#018260

[Albert-230SL]

Hi Joe,

About point 2-Revs: According to Günter Engelen's book, 230 SL 4 speed manual Euro version (with the standard rear axle-drive ratio 3.75) has a fourth gear of 31.4 kmh every 1.000 rpm (19.5 mph every 1.000 rpm), so at 65mph (104.6 kmh) the engine is at 3330 rpm. 230 SL likes high revs, because it has the max. torque (20 mkg / 196 Nm) at 4200 rpm, and max. power (150 HP DIN) at 5500 rpm. It works well at low revs (advantages of the injection system), but when the sound of the engine seems to ask for another gear (around 4000 rpm), the best of it is still to come! It sounds even better at 4400-4600 than at 3500 rpm, and with better gas pedal feeling too.
It has a really short transmision, because max.speed of 200 kmh (124 mph) is at 6370 rpm, 870 rpm over the max.power! But if your cruising speed is not very high (as 65 mph), the advantage is that you have a final gear with good gas response. And be quiet, at such speed of 65mph and 3300 revs, it works in a very relaxed way, just caressing the gas pedal (Last year I did a travel of 1150 km -714 miles- in one stage, at around 110-120 kmh (68-74 mph) of cruising speed, very comfortable and with very low fuel consumption)

About the literature, you can buy from the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center in Fellbach (Germany) the famous Service Manual BBB (Big Blue Book) for the 230 SL and 250 SL, but it's only in German (Ref. 6510 1402 00, 68 euros, 888 pages). There's the same in English for the 280 SL (6510 1404 02, 73 euros, 1076 pages). There's also the complete Spare parts list for the 230 SL (6510 4431 41, 53 euros, in German/English/French), and the Spare parts list (without engine parts) in stock and with current prices from MB, for all W113 (6510 0000 04, 17 euros). For more information, you could ask in: classic.literatur@daimlerchrysler.com

Best regards,

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[Albert-230SL]

Hi again Joe,

RPM figures of my previous post are for 230 SL Euro version (rear axle-drive ratio 3.75), but I don't know if "your" 1966 230 SL is Euro or USA version.
USA version had a shorter transmission (rear axle-drive ratio 4.08). Because of the speed limit rules, MB considered that transmission better for the USA, in order to improve the acceleration. I haven't found RPM figures for that 4.08 axle. Maybe some 230 SL "USA version" owner in the Group could help here.

Regards,

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[Richard Madison]

RPM calculation...please correct this if not right. Figures are for 1:1 ratio (4th gear), Manual transmission. Automatic might vary slightly.
Tire circumference (205 70R14) is 81 inches by tape measure.
There are 63,360 inches in a mile. 63,360 divided by 81 is 782.22 (the number of revolutions of the tire in one mile.)
If the rear is 4.08, the engine will turn (rev) 4.08 times 782.22 or 3,191 revolutions in one mile. So with a 4.08 rear, at 60 miles per hour (one mile per minute), the tach should show about 3,200 rpm.

My car shows 3,100 revs at 60 mph. This calculates to a 3.96 rearend which is the number stamped on my '71 USA 280 SL. Note that a small  difference of 100 rpm changes the result from 3.96 to 4.08, so the formula is only as accurate as the data. If the tach is not precise, the result will not be precise.

Result should be the same for 195 or other width tires since I believe the circumference is the same, only the tread width changes. Not sure if the circumference of a 13inch tire or a tire with a different height aspect (R70, R65) would be the same. Even the same size tires can vary slightly in circumference due to wear or tread design. Best to either measure the circumference of the tire (off the ground) or roll the car with a mark on the sidewall one full rev of the tire then measure the ground distance, mark to mark.
   
Richard M (Caution, not expert in these matters)