Author Topic: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent? (I just found out, yes they are)  (Read 3183 times)

JohnnyC

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Hi Fellow Pagoda Owners, Does anyone here know if the Niemoller stainless steel exhaust systems are mandrel bent? 

Cheers and Thank you,
JohnnyC.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 02:17:43 by JohnnyC »
John
'70 280SL (In Rebuild), Dk Olive/Cognac
'85 BMW Euro M635csi, Polaris Silver
'54 MG TF, Black
'01 Lazy Daze RV, White/Tan
'10 Genesis Coupe, Silver
'19 F150, Black

doitwright

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2020, 14:10:31 »
Why would you consider ordering an exhaust from Niemoller when you can get one from TimeValve in the US?
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

JohnnyC

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2020, 17:22:46 »
Hi Frank, TimeValve uses the crush method of forming the bends, which restricts the flow and creates more heat at the bend. Mandrel bent has a consistent diameter of the tube throughout the bend.  Thank you for your reply.

Cheers,
JohnnyC
John
'70 280SL (In Rebuild), Dk Olive/Cognac
'85 BMW Euro M635csi, Polaris Silver
'54 MG TF, Black
'01 Lazy Daze RV, White/Tan
'10 Genesis Coupe, Silver
'19 F150, Black

wwheeler

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2020, 18:48:57 »
I wonder if the difference between the two methods creates a noticeable difference? I wouldn’t think unless you have a formula one car. But I have been shocked at how fast and less expensive it can be shipping into the US. I would be curious to know the difference in cost between the two?

Have you tried emailing Niemoller?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

JohnnyC

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2020, 19:32:03 »
Hi Wallace, I emailed Niemoller yesterday, I’ll post their reply.  Thank you for your reply.

Cheers and God Bless,
JohnnyC
John
'70 280SL (In Rebuild), Dk Olive/Cognac
'85 BMW Euro M635csi, Polaris Silver
'54 MG TF, Black
'01 Lazy Daze RV, White/Tan
'10 Genesis Coupe, Silver
'19 F150, Black

Shvegel

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2020, 14:30:12 »
I would expect that Neimoller buys from Timevalve.  such a small market it wouldn't make much sense to set up for a few units. 

mdsalemi

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2020, 14:54:08 »
I wonder if the difference between the two methods creates a noticeable difference? I wouldn’t think...

My thoughts exactly, Wallace. I've had a TimeValve for nearly 20 years, and I expect it to last the life of the car. Oh, I suppose when the car is running at 4000 RPM on the highway, and if you were to take a temperature reading of any of the bends in the SS piping, maybe it will read higher, but you know what? Who cares? It doesn't matter. Really.

I've never heard any mechanic say, "Oh, I discovered your problem. You don't have mandrel bent exhaust pipes..."

The REAL question would be, for purists, is if the OEM system is mandrel bent, and if its still made the same way today as it was 50 years ago...
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 15:46:15 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

JohnnyC

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Re: Are Niemoeller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2020, 20:11:31 »
Thank you  Michael.  Those are my thoughts too.  Not that I have the have mandrel bent pipes, nor am I an aggressive driver seeking high RPMs and top performance from such a wonderful classic ride, but I would prefer the mandrel dent instead of a crushed/kinked bends. I have spoken to TimeValve and that is another option I have considered. Just checking different vendors.

Cheers and Thank you,
JohnnyC.
John
'70 280SL (In Rebuild), Dk Olive/Cognac
'85 BMW Euro M635csi, Polaris Silver
'54 MG TF, Black
'01 Lazy Daze RV, White/Tan
'10 Genesis Coupe, Silver
'19 F150, Black

wwheeler

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2020, 02:06:03 »
I would think if a purist was that particular about the bends, they wouldn't want the stainless anyway. There are numerous other deviances from the OEM system that are more noticeable on the stainless system. On mine, I did weld the joints and went so far to ceramic coat the system with satin black to make it look more original. But in the end, it won't rot from the inside out and I will never worry about that again.

Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

JohnnyC

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2020, 02:30:48 »
Thank you for your reply Wallace.  I'm just looking for a clean, well refurbished, driving Pagoda.    What exhaust manufacturer do you have installed on your car?

Thank you, Cheers and God Bless,
JohnnyC.
John
'70 280SL (In Rebuild), Dk Olive/Cognac
'85 BMW Euro M635csi, Polaris Silver
'54 MG TF, Black
'01 Lazy Daze RV, White/Tan
'10 Genesis Coupe, Silver
'19 F150, Black

zoegrlh

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2020, 13:54:14 »
I put on OEM system about 6 or 7 yers ago.  Wanted the exhaust to sound as original as possible.  Had the joints wielded.  Looked like the bends were mandrel.  Thought about SS, knowing I would never have to purchase an exhaust ever again.  But you know what I still won't have to buy one again, car is garaged, does not get much water on it or under it, and the exhaust of 7 years still looks like when I installed.  I will say the SS looks great under the car.  A bit of shiny under the carrage.
Robert Hyatt
Williamsburg, VA.

W113, 1970 280SL, Red leather 242 on Silver Gray Met. 180, 4-speed stick, Euro spec, restored
R172 2012 SLK350, Black Premium leather 801 on Mars Red 590, 7-speed auto
W211, 2007 E320 Bluetec, Cashmere MB Tex 144 on Arctic White 650, 7 speed auto

Pawel66

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2020, 18:11:25 »
I think the worst enemy is water that is inside the mufflers.

I also have OEM exhaust. Also for the sound of it. I read on the Forum: better check if the sound of stainless is ok for you because it is different.

I keep chasing Daimler for the front pipe for 280SL, by the way.  I will not let it go.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Shvegel

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2020, 01:30:45 »
what I keep coming back to is it is 170 horsepower breathing through 2 pipes.  I am sure each pipe can handle the 85 horses.

wwheeler

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2020, 03:11:17 »
Johnny,

Like many, I have a Time valve. Mine is a W111, but the system is similar. I am very happy with it. The one thing I wish it had is the cross over piece in front of the first muffler. Not sure why they don't put that on. Yes, the sound is a bit different, but I hardly notice and I cannot even remember what the old one sounded like. Everybody has their own strong likes and dislikes and I am fine with that. I personally just don't care that much about the sound being exactly the same. I would rather have the durability.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

stickandrudderman

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Re: Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2020, 16:36:41 »
But you know what I still won't have to buy one again, car is garaged, does not get much water on it or under it, and the exhaust of 7 years still looks like when I installed. 
Cars that are only driven short distances do not  fully heat the exhaust along their entire length which causes hot exhaust gasses to condense in (typically) the rear muffler. It is this moisture that will cause the system to rust through from the inside.
One can often witness a car that pulls away from a standstill in the traffic in front of you discharging water, lots of it, from the exhaust.

JohnnyC

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Thank you all for your reply's, much appreciated.  I yet to receive the SS System from Niemoller.  But through email messages to Niemoller, the tubes are mandrel bent.  Not that I have to have mandrel bent pipes, I just what I prefer if they are available.  Total cost is $1150 USD  w/shipping (from Germany to San Diego).

I hope others will get some knowledge from the thread as I have.

Thanks again for your input.
Cheers and God Bless,
JohnnyC
John
'70 280SL (In Rebuild), Dk Olive/Cognac
'85 BMW Euro M635csi, Polaris Silver
'54 MG TF, Black
'01 Lazy Daze RV, White/Tan
'10 Genesis Coupe, Silver
'19 F150, Black

GM

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I heard (urban legend?) that most of the moisture that causes the interior rusting of mufflers happens after the car is driven and parked, when the moisture in the air can enter the open tail pipes and condense inside. Solution? Supposedly, plugging the tailpipes immediately after driving.
Anybody else hear of this?
Gary
1971 280SL - Sold
(98 from the end of production)
DB180 Silver Gray Metallic
Black MB Tex

wwheeler

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I think the majority of water in the system comes from when the engine is cold, not so much just sitting there. Since one end of exhaust system is basically closed at the head, you would have to push moist air into the tailpipe since there is no natural flow through.

The major issue is shutting off the engine before it is completely hot. That allows water to sit inside the exhaust causing rust. Also bad for the engine oil because there is water in that and needs to boil out. That can only happen when the engine hot.

 
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6