Power steering pump

[MikeSimon]

Christian:

I think the VT27 pump you show in the picture is a really early VT27, prior to W113, maybe 220Seb.
Nothing on the nameplate says it is a 82bar pump
There should have been VT27 pumps with 82bars as used in the R107 with V8, (350SL).
Also large sedans with V8s prior to R107 may have had 82 bars.

[Berggreen]

Here is the photo after I cleaned it out.

Bali

Hi Bali

Please check the first picture below of the pump I showed pictures of before. I think that 6 mm thread is for alternative mounting but not used on the w113.

I think your problem lies in the volume regulating valve, which can me accessed from outside the pump, by hammering out the pin and then screwing out the valve. Check the second picture I have shared and in the lower left corner.

Do you have some pictures of your pump and also the model plate?

Cheers,

Christian

[Berggreen]

Christian:

I think the VT27 pump you show in the picture is a really early VT27, prior to W113, maybe 220Seb.
Nothing on the nameplate says it is a 82bar pump
There should have been VT27 pumps with 82bars as used in the R107 with V8, (350SL).
Also large sedans with V8s prior to R107 may have had 82 bars.

Hi Mike

Ok, I am surprised to hear that, because I always thought that the elongated model plates were from newer generation VT27 pumps.

If you look in this pdf document I found online, and then look at the last page, then they state how to decode the model number: http://www.vickershydraulic.com/site1/pdfs/m1371s.pdf

From this, it actually appears that the "85" on my pump model plate is indicating pressure relief valve of 850 psi, thus 58 bars! So not 82 bars as I thought.

Now the pdf is for a VT1* pump, but I assume the model number coding is the same. But judging from the age of the pdf, it does look to me like the elongated plate numbers seem to be of newer date than the older rectangular ones without the model code.

Or what do you think?

Cheers,

Christian

[balimatharu]

Berggreen
Sending you 2 photos. Only now I noticed the valve.
Tomorrow I will take the pin out and see what’s wrong.
But I won’t know what to see. Could you please tell me what to see.
Sorry about this.
Your interest is appreciated.
Bali

[MikeSimon]

Hi Mike

Ok, I am surprised to hear that, because I always thought that the elongated model plates were from newer generation VT27 pumps.

If you look in this pdf document I found online, and then look at the last page, then they state how to decode the model number: http://www.vickershydraulic.com/site1/pdfs/m1371s.pdf

From this, it actually appears that the "85" on my pump model plate is indicating pressure relief valve of 850 psi, thus 58 bars! So not 82 bars as I thought.

 
Or what do you think?

Cheers,

Christian

Christian:

The reason I think the long plate is off an earlier pump is:

When Vickers started to supply pumps to Daimler Benz, the first couple of years the units were still made in the U.S.
Identification used SAE standard units such as PSI and GPM.
When production for the DB requirements was moved to Bad Homburg, Germany, these IDs were no longer used.
The nameplates carried no such info and later the max pressure in bar was added. The "model-code" never appeared on any Bad Homburg produced pump.

[Pawel66]

Here is the photo after I cleaned it out.

Bali

Could you perhaps help answer bali's question? I am not competent enough... Would clogging of this threaded hole prevent pump from functioning? I am curious myself...

[Berggreen]

Could you perhaps help answer bali's question? I am not competent enough... Would clogging of this threaded hole prevent pump from functioning? I am curious myself...

Hi Pawel and Bali

As I wrote above I don’t think this thread has any influence on the functioning of the pump. It is an excess thread for mounting the pump or alternatively a mounting thread for mounting the oil tank directly on top the pump instead of separately like on our cars.

Cheers,

Christian

[Pawel66]

Thank you!

Missed your answer apparently, sorry!

[Berggreen]

When Vickers started to supply pumps to Daimler Benz, the first couple of years the units were still made in the U.S.
Identification used SAE standard units such as PSI and GPM.
When production for the DB requirements was moved to Bad Homburg, Germany, these IDs were no longer used.
The nameplates carried no such info and later the max pressure in bar was added. The "model-code" never appeared on any Bad Homburg produced pump.

Hi Mike

That is an interesting theory. But actually if you check the elongated model plate on both my pump and the identical one on Bali’s pump, both of them actually say “Bad Homburg, Germany” on their elongated model plates with the long “psi” model codes.

It would just surprise me that Vickers would start out with the long model codes, then abandon them while manufacturing for MB, but then to adopt them again with the modern pumps for which the pdf document belong to. Also the long model code is very similar to what other producers are also using today for machinery parts. Thus in my mind the long model codes appears to be more modern than the square TYPE 01 and 08 model plates and type designations. But true that on some of these plates they started to state the pressure in bars - see attached example I found in a sales add on EBay Kleinanzeigen:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lenkhelfpume-servopumpe-vickers-mercedes-w108-w113-w114-w115/1486239241-223-4966?utm_source=mail&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_medium=social&utm_content=app_ios

Bali, maybe an alternative for you, if you cannot get your own pump to work. 90 EUR for a replacement pump is a good price and he seems to have several to choose from!

Sorry Bali, I don’t know exactly what to look for when taking out the volume valve. But I know that repair kits could previously be bought for these valves where I guess you changed some of the moving parts which would have become too worn and made the valve malfunction - maybe like yours.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find these repair kits for sale anywhere anymore. But maybe someone else on forum know where you can buy a valve repair kit today?

Cheers,

Christian

[MikeSimon]

Christian:

I am quite sure the elongated plates are earlier versions. It was long before my time at Vickers, so they may be "transitional units" when manufacturing had just be transferred from the US.
My pump is original to the car, which is December 1970 and it has the short plate with no performance data info. Only a few years after 1970 were the VT27s supplied before the VT49 took over.
I promise, I will get to the bottom of this. I have been digging through boxes of old records all night yesterday......

[Berggreen]

Christian:

I am quite sure the elongated plates are earlier versions. It was long before my time at Vickers, so they may be "transitional units" when manufacturing had just be transferred from the US.
My pump is original to the car, which is December 1970 and it has the short plate with no performance data info. Only a few years after 1970 were the VT27s supplied before the VT49 took over.
I promise, I will get to the bottom of this. I have been digging through boxes of old records all night yesterday......

Thanx Mike that is GREAT! Would be fantastic if you can find the spec page with the Vickers pump types for the different w113 models.

Highly appreciate your help!

Cheers,

Christian

[balimatharu]

Thanks to
Pawel 66, MikeSimon, WRe and Berggreen for the help to get the pump going.
I opened the pump and found some wear on the side plates made by the rotor and the vanes.
The vanes were getting caught in the slots as there were burrs on the ends of the slots. I polished these edges using 2500 wet and dry paper. Also polished the surfaces of of the vanes with chrome polish.
Works fine. Bleeding the system was a pain. Took me hours.

There is some discussion going on about the labelling of the pump. The pump in my car ( 250sl, UK supplied,RHD, ) is original supplied with the car. I have full service history. The label is elongated type and the shaft where the pulley fits is  parallel.
See the photo.

Bali

[Pawel66]

Great that you made it!

I was thinking it was something simple that was overlooked...