Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices

[john.mancini]

Holy $hy?%#!  I'm sure that many of you have seen the lofty prices that sub par Pagodas are fetching on Bring a Trailer. There are a lot of first time W113 buyers who are throwing big money at these cars. Maybe they're right and I'm wrong.

[scoot]

Because BaT is a playground for people with WAYYYYYY too much money...

[paults1]

Is it time to sell my no.2 1963 230 SL?

[MikeSimon]

As said elsewhere many times, BaT is not a place to go when you in the market to buy. If you have a piece of mediocre crap for sale, you will get more there than anywhere else.
Just compare prices on BaT with those at life auction events like Mecum or Barret-Jackson

[Peter h]

I wrote something on bat about this car. Unfortunately it has not been published.
But there were references to this pagoda, the buyer has been informed about the car. But he stuck to the people who praised the glossy paint.
Peter

[MikeSimon]

I wrote something on bat about this car. Unfortunately it has not been published.
But there were references to this pagoda, the buyer has been informed about the car. But he stuck to the people who praised the glossy paint.
Peter

Which one?

[Peter h]

The red one.
Peter

[thelews]

This is not unique to 113

[badali]

There is one BAT commenter that callout members of this site for pointing out incorrect items or major potential problems with the cars for sale.  It is quite sad that a few buyers may be in way over the value then to make it right to have to spend that again.  I guess if I had millions of dollars I wouldn't feel that way...

[mdsalemi]

See attached.

I don't think the nice-looking graph is of much value without other metrics thrown in, such as model (280 does better than 230 but not always) and some kind of assessment of condition.

As with a lot of data, throw out the outliers (high and low) and look at a trend line, and if you do that from a seat of the pants analysis, I see prices moving from the $50K to $70K range in 3-4 years. But, without that condition assessment, it's all just a bunch of numbers...

[johnk]

I believe classic care prices are going up in general. Who want to invest in DOW 31,000 or bonds at zero interest. The Mecum auction I watched just a few days ago was at almost a 100% sale through rate.

[scoot]

I believe classic care prices are going up in general. Who want to invest in DOW 31,000 or bonds at zero interest. The Mecum auction I watched just a few days ago was at almost a 100% sale through rate.

I would never think of a car as an investment.  And I understand the reluctance to poor more money into an already over-valued stock market.  So there really isn't a good solution for what to do with money, other than to be happy you have it...

[MikeSimon]

I believe classic care prices are going up in general. Who want to invest in DOW 31,000 or bonds at zero interest. The Mecum auction I watched just a few days ago was at almost a 100% sale through rate.

...and then, your Porsche Turbo sold too low, John, IMO!

[mdsalemi]

...pour more money into an already over-valued stock market.

If you bought a Tesla Model S a year ago, it would have cost you just north of $80,000.
If you bought 750 shares of Tesla stock instead at that time, at about that same investment, today you'd have enough for that Tesla S...and probably over $500,000 in the bank.

Overvalued? Could be...you just have to know when to buy and when to sell.

[scoot]

If you bought a Tesla Model S a year ago, it would have cost you just north of $80,000.
If you bought 750 shares of Tesla stock instead at that time, at about that same investment, today you'd have enough for that Tesla S...and probably over $500,000 in the bank.
Overvalued? Could be...you just have to know when to buy and when to sell.

?    Maybe I should be thinking about bitcoin....

[john.mancini]

Yes, collector car prices are going up. I really should know better, but following some of these Pagoda BaT auctions is like watching a train wreck in progress.  I can't turn away!  There have been quite a few tremendous overbid mistakes by some very unsuspecting buyers. Sellers get nasty when shortcomings are pointed out. Many of these buyers will become W113.org members. Buyer Beware.

[scoot]

Yes, collector car prices are going up. I really should know better, but following some of these Pagoda BaT auctions is like watching a train wreck in progress.  I can't turn away!  There have been quite a few tremendous overbid mistakes by some very unsuspecting buyers. Sellers get nasty when shortcomings are pointed out. Many of these buyers will become sl113.org members. Buyer Beware.

Many of them won't become sl113.org members.  They are just rich guys with no particular interest in Pagodas.  I don't think BaT is a good barometer for car prices - it's all over the map.  I agree that there have been some overbid mistakes, but most of the people doing the overbids don't seem to care...

[john.mancini]

I think you are 100% correct.

[Peter h]

Yes, maybe some of these people bought bit coins 5 years ago. Then it does not matter.
Peter

[mdsalemi]

BaT--and I have no affiliation with them, and not much care about them or the guy who founded them--is absolutely no different than any other "venue" to sell a car. They run an auction. So does Whether you do a sealed bid/bid sale, consign to a boutique dealer (and there are plenty of those all around the world) or consign to one of the major auction houses, the complaints echoed HERE have been similar for years. Everyone will pick apart what they see (without actually seeing it of course) to the "nth" degree.

Auction houses that actually take possession of a car have been accused of "tarting up" a car to make it look good. Ditto for the showrooms.

Prices have been both underbid and overbid on auctions. Closed sales have been both good and bad price wise, depending on when, and the car, and a hose of other criteria. An otherwise uneducated buyer of any vehicle may very well end up paying too much. A highly educated buyer in the right place at the right time can do exceedingly well.

[MikeSimon]

Michael: I don't think the sentiments are directed against BaT as an organisation, but rather against the environment that is represented. And that, of course, is largely created by the people who are there and participate in the banter.
One thing, however, REAL criticism of prices and vehicles does not fly on BaT. People who dare to speak up are being censored.

[mdsalemi]

Michael: I don't think the sentiments are directed against BaT as an organisation, but rather against the environment that is represented. And that, of course, is largely created by the people who are there and participate in the banter.
One thing, however, REAL criticism of prices and vehicles does not fly on BaT. People who dare to speak up are being censored.

...and I simply offer, it's not much different than any other place. It's just another place to buy and sell cars. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Montreal V8]

  Hi all. I recently sold my very nice '71 Pagoda on B a T. Did not get a high price for it, but I wasn't greedy, and pleased the new owner was enthusiastic. He joined the Pagoda SL Group before even seeing the car. Conversely, I sold my Alfa Montreal, also on B a T, and got way more than expected due to a last minute bidding war. Never can tell.

[mdsalemi]

...Did not get a high price for it...got way more than expected due to a last minute bidding war. Never can tell.

My emphasis added. You never can tell. There are those that buy and sell regularly (at least they did prior to the world virus situation) on/at major auctions, and must carefully hope and pray for good positioning (early vs late) and hope that a fog hasn't clouded over an otherwise normal auction where many prices are down. Some auction houses insist upon no reserve; some sellers won't sell w/o it knowing that some weirdness can always pop up when something goes for way less than it should just due to the set of circumstances at that exact moment.

[scoot]

...and I simply offer, it's not much different than any other place. It's just another place to buy and sell cars. Nothing more, nothing less.

Actually Michael I think it is quite different.  It provides entertainment for the arm chair car collector and a venue for rich people who don't want to get off their asses to go look at cars in person.  Granted, that's not all of the people on BaT, but it does seem to be a majority.    It's like on-line gambling in a way - entertainment you can get at your computer, except you end up with a prize!!!  (A possibly over-priced car).  And _then_ what do you do with it?  I _really_ wonder about these crazies who buy things like TANKS on BaT.  Really?  Does someone want or need a tank?