Camshaft Causing Ticking Noise

[Kirk32]

Got this attached on budzbenz site don’t know if it helps at all.

[ja17]

Mike, the 05 is the one to use. Kirk, The lift on the 01 is probably the same. Just the duration is different. I assume you checked the valve timing already? You might also need to check to see if someone put an off set key at the sprocket.

[MikeSimon]

Joe: Could you elaborate? Why is the 05 better than the 02?

[ja17]

Mike, the performance of the two is the same. The "05" is a newer version of the "02" manufactured with improved material.

[MikeSimon]

Another cylinder head related mystery. My 280 is a real late car. Built at the end of 11/70 and it has a 02 cam. Was the 05 not used in the SL, or only in US versions?
I have to see what the date of the head is, that came with the 05.

[stickandrudderman]

It was none of the issues mentioned. I was told the camshaft lobes are too high.

The only way valve lift can be causing noise is if the valves are touching the pistons. This is NOT a result of incorrect cam; rather too much material has already been removed from either the block or the head face or both.
Find a mechanic who knows what he's doing.

[Pawel66]

Another cylinder head related mystery. My 280 is a real late car. Built at the end of 11/70 and it has a 02 cam. Was the 05 not used in the SL, or only in US versions?
I have to see what the date of the head is, that came with the 05.

05 is modification of 01, as stated. Both are the US shafts, shaped to help fit the emission standards. 02 is late Euro shaft. I had 02 in March 70 Euro 280SL. I bought a new shaft from Mercedes and the spare part number yielded 02 shaft as a spare.

[MikeSimon]

Thanks, Pawel!
Makes me feel better. I will stick with the 02.
Funny thing is, the 05 cam I have came with a head I bought from a German source. I am sure it came off a sedan.

[Pawel66]

I think the part number for 05 is A 114 051 05 01. It has been widely used in W114 for M114 engines, mostly sedans. Also in Europe as much as I can tell.

[Kirk32]

Just talked with Tom at Mercedes classic center, he said the cam they have for the late 280sl's, is the 05 and cost is $755

[Pawel66]

My cam shaft was very pitted. I said what the hell and I bought a new one. It happened to be 02 (Euro), costed money, but I am happy.

If I may advise: read about the proper oil (with certain amount of zinc, these timing systems need it, they cannot go on regular modern oils) and cam shaft run-in procedure.

[ja17]

Yes, you guys are correct.  I am corrected on my previous post. By checking my own camshaft chart the "01" and "05" cams have the same specs and performance. The "05" uses improved materials. The "02" camshaft is slightly de-tuned to improve emissions.

[MikeSimon]

So! "Curiousity Killed The Cat". We have all that "information" in the Tech Manual, most very vague and based on ...??
As I have 3 different heads with cams, I decided to do some measuring and see what actually the difference is between some of the cams.
I did this for MYSELF and do not want this to be part of the W113 "Bible" thus becoming a fact that - while wrong in some areas - will become the "word on cams"

You can take from it whatever you need.

I used Brown & Sharpe Dial Indicators and set them up over the cam lobes with the cams installed in the head. I measured the lift and tried to determine the duration. The latter is a little difficult, because you would have to figure out where exactly on the opening ramp the lift starts, which depends on the actual valve lash setting. I have 02, 01 and 08 cams
See attached pictures.

[450sl]

Mike, its important to know at howmuch lift you measured the timing of your cam, usually timing is measured at 1mm lift to eliminate measuring errors...........

cheers mark

[MikeSimon]

Hi mark:

I do not understand your comment. Can you elaborate?

[450sl]

 Mike, if you are to measure your timing , you go as follows: first turn your cam towards the point where you have 1mm lift at the valve , then note the opening angle,
then go towards the closingpoint of your valve where you also have 1mm lift left . then note your closing time.

This to be as accurate as possible ; as it is very difficult to find the exact spot were the opening or closing point  at no lift lies..

[MikeSimon]

Mark: thank you. I am aware of all that. that's why I made the comments about the difficulty to determine actual opening angle. I did not check with valves installed or checking timing of the engine in the car
I just wanted a "quality" not "quantity" difference in the cams. As the cams were all checked under the same conditions, it should give you a general idea of the differences.
For me, it gave me more confidence in what cam to use for my car.

[Tyler S]

It looks as if the rocker geometry is off. The adjusters look almost bottomed out.
Valve or seat wear, a machined head top surface with no cam bearing shims, Or machined valve seats will cause this. Thinner lash caps (3.5mm) and/or cam bearing tower shims will correct the geometry.
There is an area towards the back of the head where you can just get a caliper in to measure the head thickness in situ. If it has been machined then the rocker geometry will be off. This also will cause premature valve guide wear.

[MikeSimon]

Let me see whether I understand this:
If the ball studs are "bottomed out", the valve adjustment is on maximum lash. They can be made tighter but not "looser", right?
What is a "lash cap" and where are they available in different thicknesses??

[Pawel66]

One source I know for the lash caps is the Mercedes dealers. Various part numbers for various thicknesses. I had one made in the past, but they were not made well, so I replaced them with originals.

[MikeSimon]

Still: What are they and what do they look like?

[Cees Klumper]

The lash cap is the small metal piece that sits on top of the valve springs and is actually the surface that the rocker arm pushes down on. One for each valve.

[Tyler S]

The smaller lash caps and/or adding cam pedestal shims correct the rocker arm geometry. Either by lowering the valve stem interface where it meets the rocker (lash caps), or raising the camshaft up (pedestal shims). The rockers should be roughly horizontal with the head starting out. When the geometry is tilted one direction to begin with it changes the way the rockers interact with the cam and valves. It also introduces side loading and more wear on the guides. And as noted it forces you to run the adjusters pretty far down in order to compensate for the loss of clearance.
Hope that makes sense.

The pedestal shims have an added bonus in that they correct the valve train timing by bringing the cam back up to the correct height off the engine block. They are also much cheaper.
The thinner lash caps are usually reserved for when the valve seats are cut in order to lower the valve stem interface back to spec.

[Pinder]

You can get the tower shims on ebay.
I got lash caps from metric Motors.

[Berggreen]

Yes, you guys are correct.  I am corrected on my previous post. By checking my own camshaft chart the "01" and "05" cams have the same specs and performance. The "05" uses improved materials. The "02" camshaft is slightly de-tuned to improve emissions.

Hi Joe

I just stumbled over your comment above about the 02 cam.

Isn't the 02 cam equivalent to the 09 cam, and both being European cams with identical geometry and 142 degrees opening, and thus the most aggressive available cams for the 280SL?

The 02 should be an improved version of the 09 in terms of material. The 02 cam can still be bought new from Mercedes - I bought one recently, which is waiting to be installed.

The 01 and 05 cams are similar identical cams in terms of geometry (130 degree opening) with the 05 having an improved material over the 01. Those cams are actually de-tuned for the US market to comply with emission demands, compared to the standard European 02/09 cams.

Thanks,
Christian