113 vs 107

[zak]

What makes my 1967 250 SL drive and handle better than my 1983 280 SL ?
I drove both this weekend and the 113 is just more surefooted and nimble just floating over the bumps and potholes. The steering is spot on too.
I understand that the 107 is like 400+ lbs heavier but are there other factors ? You would think that the 107 being 16 years younger it would be way ahead of the 113s in terms of improvements and inovations. Do they share steering and suspension designs ? Or was it that MB decided that the 107 would just be boulivardiers ?

Also, I read the thread on shortening the stick shift in our 113s so I tested that too. My feeling is that the stock stick is perfectly sized and gracefully allows for smooth gear changes both up and down.

jz 

[AndrewB]

I have a 1987 500SL and a 1969 280 SL. The 500 V8 engine is so quiet, it seems like it might be an electric vehicle !

However, the W113 is better to drive in almost every other aspect

I also find it surprising that the W113 is so much better to drive than the R107

Regards
Andrew

[franjo_66]

Hi guys

That is a great endorsement of our W113s. The very reason I went for a R129 500SL vs R107 500SL, was that the R107 was not a step up in any aspect. I was quite surprised when I drove the R107 as my expectations were that it would be a whole different dimension of driving.

The R129 was a whole different story, and so it should be for a car that is over 2 decades younger.

Just shows how well engineered our cars were for the time, and even later !

[cabrioletturbo]

Don't agree. At all. Something must not be right with your W107. I have w113, w107 and w129 and all of them have very solid handling behavior when sorted out correctly.
As a matter of fact, I have two W107 (280 and 300) and with 280, which is as close to original as realistically possible, I have never driven better handling car than that. My 300 though has not been sorted out yet and it shows some sloppiness. Me thinking springs the culprit.

w107s were built with different purpose and different target market in mind than w113. there is a reason why they were produced for 18 years and used 280, 300, 350, 380, 420, 450, 500 and 560 engines over the period. built better and longer than any other benz, ever, before or after. so I am biased.
w113 = sporty
w107 = stately
w129 = sophisticated

[450sl]

i must agree with cabrioletturbo , 1 have got a w113-280 and a w107-500 as well, and altough the w113 is in perfect shape, the w107 still is the better car .
as one could imagine ........

[AndrewB]

My 1987 R107 500 SL is a low mileage car in mint condition, with new tyres and a fabulous engine. It is a great car, but somehow does not match the W113, which has a superb ride, although it is 18 years older, has a smaller engine, and appreciably louder. 

I accept that others have a different view; maybe it is just that my personal preferences are different to theirs........

[Nicolas Aristodemou]

If I could throw in my personal experience owning both a w113 280sl and an r107 380sl I would endorse that the w113 is a sportier and more of a driver’s car than the 107. Louder and more precise steering.

The 107/is more luxurious, more more quiet and refined and a long distance cruiser. Really could not choose between them, each has its own charm and brings out different emotions.

[FGN59]

Well said! When you hang up your tools, you should think about a writing career…

[zak]

Thanks gentlemen for the varied comments and opinions. That's what makes the world go around.
I also love both my cars and would not part with either.
But somehow I feel that the 107 is a very Americanized design. It's a heavy weight and large majority have the V- 8.
Their nose diving and corner leaning leave something to be desired for sure.

Do both models have the steering box ? My 1113's steering is so light and precise while the 107 is more floaty. (I have had that 107 steering box rebuilt by a pro too.)
I agree that the 107 is a well built ( Panzerwagon!) and a high speed , long distance cruiser and quieter too.

I share my comments with respect to all.

jz

[Jack Jones]

I have spent a lot of time in both 280SL's that I have and my R107 drives much crisper than the W113. Both of mine are stick shifts and if the suspension bushings are worn out in your R107, I could see that causing the poor driving you are experiencing.

[zak]

jack, thanks I will check the bushings at next weeks oil change.

jz

[mauro12]

Hi guys , in my personal opinion , the r107 even if it’s a 50years old project , is still very modern car compared to the W113 . If you look the interior and exterior of W113 and r107 you will see what a huge change Mercedes did during the 70s in terms of technology and safety .
I don’t know if this is a negative aspect or positive but I think also that the r107 is very complicated electronically and very delicate , especially the v8 engine .
Also the prices are going up incredibly. I wanted to buy an entry level like the 280sl r107 and in Italy the request is about 25thousend €.
I don’t see the same huge change between the 190sl and W113 .
Finally I cannot give and opinion about the handling because I’ve never driven an r107 but from appearance it seems very heavy car and maybe much solid .
Mauro

[mdsalemi]

Yes. Very heavy (107) in driving feel.

No wonder it received the nickname “Panzerwagen”.

[MikeSimon]

I lived in Germany and breathed "Sports Cars" in the 60s and 70s.
W113 vs R107: While the W113 never was a true "sports car", compared to a Porsche, Ferrari etc, the R107 was even more "watered down". We considered it a "Boulevard Cruiser", with Mercedes trying to appeal to customers who were looking for a 2nd car for their wifes.
Technically the R107 was surely superior to the W113 in many details, because advancements in engineering and technology came into play.
From an image point of view, it was not the superior car.

[neelyrc]

If I could throw in my personal experience owning both a w113 280sl and an r107 380sl I would endorse that the w113 is a sportier and more of a driver’s car than the 107. Louder and more precise steering.

The 107/is more luxurious, more more quiet and refined and a long distance cruiser. Really could not choose between them, each has its own charm and brings out different emotions.

Right on Nicolas! Couldn’t be better said.  My 107 (1988 560SL) is a solid and smooth driving cruiser but does not provide the same exhilaration as the 113 on a spirited drive.

[mauro12]

The thing I like about the r107 is that is a classic and modern at the same time .
What do you think will become the most valuable ? R107 or r129?

[Nicolas Aristodemou]

The thing I like about the r107 is that is a classic and modern at the same time .
What do you think will become the most valuable ? R107 or r129?

I think most certainly the 107...... has more charm and character...... also better build and not so many electronics that can fail and cause havoc...... and last but not least..... more eye catching.......

[mauro12]

The value of both r107 and r129 has increased . You could buy a 300sl r129 for 5.000€ in 2010. Now you need 3 times more . The same for r107.

[zak]

The 129 always looked like a Corvette to me. I haven't loved the look of the MB SLs after the 107. That's not saying they are not good cars, but the 129s and 230s seemed to have lost their delicacy.
I agree that the 107 is a rock solidly built car and it's interior finishes are head and shoulders above the 113. So maybe that was the trade off MB made ? They sacrificed sportiness and curve carving of the 113 for a solid, safe and "lux" second car for the US doctor's wives.
Hope I am not getting anyone mad.

jz

[Mike Hughes]

a solid, safe and "lux" second car for the US doctor's wives.

. . . and Bobby Ewing, as I recall (although I think Pam Ewing was driving when their red 107 met its fiery end.)

[mauro12]

I was surprised to discover that Mercedes produced more r107 than r129.

[neelyrc]

The 129 always looked like a Corvette to me. I haven't loved the look of the MB SLs after the 107. That's not saying they are not good cars, but the 129s and 230s seemed to have lost their delicacy.
I agree that the 107 is a rock solidly built car and it's interior finishes are head and shoulders above the 113. So maybe that was the trade off MB made ? They sacrificed sportiness and curve carving of the 113 for a solid, safe and "lux" second car for the US doctor's wives.
Hope I am not getting anyone mad.

jz

Not getting mad, jz, but I respectfully disagree on the interior finishes.  Lack of features yes, quality at delivery, no.

[zak]

Ralph, i guess these cars are a product of their eras. All the sports cars of the 1960s - Triumph, MG, Sunbeam, Alfa, Lancia, AH etc had similar spartan interior finishes. Especially that carpeted transmission hump. I agree with you the 113 's spartan interior features were quality.  The center console of the 107s was clearly a step up. The bank vault sound when closing the door on a 107 is missing from my 113.

If you compare the 113 to the 190Sl and the 300SL of earlier years which interior would you say was the most deluxe in materials and finishes ? 

jz

[mdsalemi]

"Spartan"? Seriously? Spartan means "rigorously simple, frugal, or austere"

We have a partially painted dashboard to coordinate with the body color. We have padded dash pieces to coordinate with the interior seating. We have chrome--yes, genuine chrome functional pieces (fresh air vents) along with coordinating textured chrome trim. We have an integral map light built into the glovebox door. Our high quality instrumentation by VDO features genuine chrome plated trim. The seats are thicker and considerably better built than many small sports/touring cars of the era; look at anything from the fair isles of Great Britain to compare. We have a lighted genuine chrome bezel assembly around the shifter on the automatic versions. Perhaps as merely a throwback to the 1950s, but present throughout production, we also have a number of genuine wood pieces: console box, bows on either side of the windscreen, and the speaker grille--also on the hard top. The MB-Tex, more common than leather at the time, was and still is basically bulletproof under normal circumstances and w/o compare. The 230s and early 250s also featured more interior chrome including rear view mirrors and additional trim. Quite beautiful. Hardly austere.

While you cannot compare this to a true luxury car of the era, say a Rolls or Bentley, compare to a comparably priced "luxury" car of the era and I think you'll find that those that exude any kind of luxury at that price point would have had chrome plastic, fake vinyl wood trim, etc.

[stickandrudderman]

As someone who has driven hundreds of 113, 107 and 129:
They're all excellent in their own way and none are comparable.
113 gives a sense of driving pleasure that only a car of the period can do.
107 gives a sense of being driven in style rather than driving it.
129, the last of the proper Mercedes cars IMHO, is the final bridge between over engineered and compromised in build quality, particularly in interiors which suffer terribly from broken and worn out parts. They were built in the early years of electronic diagnosis and the software wasn't anywhere near as good as it is on modern cars so diagnostics is a time-consuming and costly affair. They offered the last in the line of excellent ride quality too with all models since giving a much harsher and noisier ride.