Torque level for oil pan bolts

[Berggreen]

Hello,

I am struggling with some oil leaks originating from the oil pan seal.

However, in connection with the last oil change last fall, my mechanic replaced the seal. But I am not sure he tightened all the bolts correctly.

What is the correct torque level for these oil pan bolts?

Thanks,

Christian

[WRe]

Hi,
see attachment.
...WRe

[Berggreen]

Hi,
see attachment.
...WRe

Great, thanks a lot.

However, my German is not so strong. Is it the first or second torque mentioned in the tabel?

Thanks for your help,

Christian

[WRe]

Hi,
the first is the lower, small pan, the second the upper, big part.
...WRe

[Berggreen]

Hi,
the first is the lower, small pan, the second the upper, big part.
...WRe

Great thanks, and I believe it is mostly the lower smaller pan which is leaking, but will check both.

Thanks again for you help and have a nice weekend,

Christian 

[Pawel66]

As I had issues with my dynamometric wrench handling these small torque values, I used Kent Bergsma method: with your thumb on the head of a ratchet, snag it with your index finger. That's it. 

[Shvegel]

Remove pan, clean area, apply Toyota FIPG or Yamabond in a single small bead in the middle of the sealing area being careful to loop around each bolt hole, install pan.  To head off any discussion of using silicone based sealants and the horrors they cause remember literally millions of Toyotas are sealed with the stuff.

I was servicing the transmission on my Land Rover LR4 and decided to use the factory gasket and even torqued each bolt lovingly down.  Leaked.  Went back under a cranked them to where my years of experience told me to tighten them to.  Totally dry now.

[Nicolas Aristodemou]

I agree with Shvegel, use a good quality gasket sealant on both sides of the gasket and you will solve your problem. While at it use a fresh gasket of course....

[Berggreen]

Thanks all for your good advice! 

Actually, the old pan was also mounted with liquid seal, and it ALSO leaked like crazy, and the leak is clearly from the lower pan, as the engine is dry above this point. 

In the autumn, when I had to change the oil, I bought a new lower pan (costs like nothing, 30-40 EUR), and then a new cork seal for the oil pan. My mechanic mounted it and carefully removed ALL of the old liquid seal, which he really hated (!!), and initially it only leaked a little from the new cork seal, but it has gotten worse, now when I have started driving the car after the winter, and this was the reason, why I asked for the torque levels.

But I now re-torqued all the lower pan bolts with 10.8 Nm (=1.1 kpm), and actually ALL of them needed torqueing! HOWEVER, it still leaks like crazy, when the oil has been up at normal operating temperature (when driving for more than 20 min), and I use normal classic 20W50 mineral oil (from Duckhams).   

It is really irritating that everywhere I go with the car, I am ruining someone's pavement with all this oil dripping from my car. And it is embarrising to having to place a cardboard under the car, every time I stop!

So, should I just torque the pan screws even more than the 10.8 Nm? If so, how much? 

Cheers,

Christian

[wwheeler]

Also recheck the oil pan to insure none of the holes have been distorted from over tightening. From my recollection, this is a pretty stout pan and the gauge sheet metal used is comparatively thick. I am not familiar with liquid seal, but you would want a nonhardening type sealant like what was mentioned or Permatex #2 and what I normally use. #2 is more of a dressing and goes on very thin. Given the fact that the upper pan is machined totally flat (might check that for damage as well) and the pan is stout, you shouldn't really need a sealant that fills gaps.

   

[Pawel66]

While we are at it, I did the oil and filter change and the pan gasket change twice. By instructions from this group, but also by the video from Kent (I think I bought it).

I did the gasket change twice because when I did not apply the sealant (followed one of the schools on this group), it started leaking after winter stay. Then I applied sealant and it is ok.

What wwheeler says is very important. I held certain size of socket in the vice, someone held the pa n for me against it and I tapped every screw orifice even.

[ejboyd5]

Wallace anticipated my warning.  When reusing any oil pan, make sure a previous mechanic has not distorted the mating edge by overtightening. Beat the areas around the bolt holes back to an approximation of plane using a hammer and backing plate, then finish with a fine file. Do not overtighten. Allow the gasket to do the job it was intended to do.

[Dave H]

I fitted a new pan and gasket , didn’t over torque, leaked ,another new gasket , leaked again, tried again this time coating both sides of the gasket with a thin smear of sealant, still leaked.
In desperation I fitted the pan again but this time without a gasket and used instead a double bead of RTV sealant being careful to ring each bolt hole, I only lightly tightened then 24 hours later put another slight nip on the bolts and filled with oil, it’s now bone dry and I’m really pleased with the outcome. I’m not condoning not using a gasket but it worked for me and I have no intention of doing it again.

[wwheeler]

Did you check the new pan to make sure it was flat and not warped? Just because it is new doesn't mean that it is good. Where did you buy the pan from? The fact that only the "gasket maker" worked would indicate that something was not true. At the end of the day though, you have to do what works so you can get back to driving your car. I get that.   

[Dave H]

Hi Wallace
Gaskets and pan were from SLS Germany.
I should of checked the “plane” of the pressed pan for trueness but admit i didn’t, this could of been the issue.
Gasket were what I call “Klingersil” , a hard compressed “card” type .
I would of preferred to use cork , this might of taken up any discrepancies in the pressing.
Can you still get cork ?

[Berggreen]

Hi Wallace
Gaskets and pan were from SLS Germany.
I should of checked the “plane” of the pressed pan for trueness but admit i didn’t, this could of been the issue.
Gasket were what I call “Klingersil” , a hard compressed “card” type .
I would of preferred to use cork , this might of taken up any discrepancies in the pressing.
Can you still get cork ?

Hi Dave

I also bought my pan from SLS, but I think I got the gasket from somewhere else. But in any case the gasket was indeed a cork one, and I still have a lot of leaks! 

I must say, that I am very disappointed that so many have had leak problems due to such a simple issue as a gasket and oil pan straightness. I would have believed Mercedes to have designed a system somewhat more bullet proof then this.

What did people do in the old days before liquid seals and all this? Did the cars just leak like crazy and people lived with this, or have we forgotten some trick from the old days to fix this problem.

I am really surprised that what first seemed like a simple replacement of an oil pan and gasket has turned out to be such a big problem. And I must confess that I had not thought this was a problem, and therefore I had not checked the forum before having my mechanic replace the pan and gasket, which I should have done! 

Cheers,

Christian

[Tyler S]

Keep in mind that a few of the rear bolts thread into the crankcase with through holes. Be sure to add thread sealant to these bolts or they will leak.

[Shvegel]

Bergreen,
I think the answer to your question lies with the small tin shield on the automatic cars that directs the oil dripping from the rear main seal to the ground.

I should also mention that I was referring to not using a gasket in my earlier post.  the 2 sealants mentioned at least for me have been well tested and never let me down.  Getting all the oil off the oil pan rail is a tough one but cleanliness is a must.

[Dave H]

I agree with you Shvegal , after 3 unsuccessful attempts to seal the oil pan I also decided to omit the gasket in favour of a modern RTV sealant, worked a treat, no more leaks on my garage floor. Also agree with your comment re.cleaning all residual oil off both faces first prior to applying the sealant.