Parts Prices

[mdsalemi]

Honestly a lot of us just don't understand how good we have it when we can actually get some quality parts for our cars, when they stopped manufacture a half century ago.

The most recent issue (June) of the fully independent Consumer Reports (the parent firm is an independent non-profit 501C3) had a recent article on some costs to fix common things on modern cars. These items were Timing Belt, Water Pump, A/C Compressor, Fuel Pump, Starter, Suspension Shock/Strut.

Timing belt, Audi S8: $1,485
Water Pump, Lexus RX450N: $2,749
A/C Compressor, BMW 750LI: $4,453
Fuel Pump, Lexus LS 460: $3,705
Starter Motor, Mercedes-Benz GL63: $2,695
Suspension, Nissan GTR: $5,867

While these were installed prices at a dealer, of course, the parts prices are up there; a discounted price for the OEM Lexus fuel pump is over $1,100 alone. Not available as factory rebuilt, so I guess you throw the core away...look at that MB starter motor price.

It makes the $975 charge for a factory rebuilt Bosch fuel pump for our car to be, in my eyes, entirely reasonable. Ditto for the factory reman Bosch starter motor at $112.

Though not on the list from CR, a brake caliper for an Audi S5 new, parts price alone, is over $650...putting the $300 new price for a Pagoda in perspective.

[MikeSimon]

The pricing issue with the Audi timing belt is probably because the belt is in the REAR of the engine, and it has to come out for belt replacement.

[Tyler S]

One more reason why new cars depreciate so quickly. Even deferred maintenance can mechanically total a car.

[mdsalemi]

The pricing issue with the Aud...the belt is in the REAR of the engine...has to come out for belt replacement.

Doesn't matter. The point of the article in CR was the cost of many common repairs on a number of vehicles. If the timing belt is put in an impossible to get at location, yet is an item that doesn't last the life of the car (what is it, 60,000 Mile? 100,000 mile replacement? Don't know) than its a poor design. Remember the certain Chevrolet models of a past era where you had to pull the engine (or drill holes in the fenders) to change the spark plugs?

The timing belt was the LEAST costly of the six items on the list! Even with the engine pull.

While many of our cars do NOT have a/c, and we have very long lasting timing chains, water pumps, fuel pumps, starter motors and suspension parts are all things we have often discussed here. And all of these parts for our cars, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth on prices, are in some cases a fraction of the cost of a modern luxury driver and still available.

RIGHT ON TYLER. A lot of deferred maintenance happens when "nothing is broken", the car is out of warranty, and there is some sticker shock at the price of preventive maintenance. Then, it so frequently doesn't happen. The eventual result is, as you say, to [eventually] mechanically total a car. We've all seen it.

[Benz Dr.]

Not really fair comparisons. Many parts used on a Pagoda were also used on many other euro cars at that time. Large applications, aftermarket parts, and rebuilding hardly compare to high-end late model parts prices. There are many prices on our cars that make no sense at all like a 300 dollar fuel line under the car. No wonder the Classic Car operations are the most profitable divisions for MB.

 If we compare fairly and use apples to apples, some things are fairly priced, and many are not.

 

[mdsalemi]

Not really fair comparisons. Many parts used on a Pagoda were also used on many other euro cars at that time. Large applications, aftermarket parts, and rebuilding hardly compare to high-end late model parts prices. There are many prices on our cars that make no sense at all like a 300 dollar fuel line under the car. No wonder the Classic Car operations are the most profitable divisions for MB.

 If we compare fairly and use apples to apples, some things are fairly priced, and many are not.

Why isn't it fair? You think parts are not in common today? If anything the number of "platforms" is significantly smaller than it was in the 60s with far more commonality in parts. That's how its done.

The Pagoda WAS a "high end" model that cost probably about 2x of an average car at the time. So comparing to a high end model today is entirely fair.

A $300 fuel line? Come on Dan, if I had one here, pre-bent from MB and you wanted it from me, and I gave it to you FOR FREE it would probably cost $300 just to ship the darn thing to you. How big is that box? How about making your own?

Of course some things are "fairly priced" and others no so much. The same can be said for almost anything. My $300 gas dryer (some years old) had a switch that cost $70, and a timer that cost $150. Yes, one part costing 50% of the cost of the dryer when new. The switch was maybe worth about $3 but it was the only one that would fit...

Please send me the detailed breakdown of Daimler's operations where the Classic Car is broken out from other operations. Would provide interesting reading.

[Benz Dr.]

Why isn't it fair? You think parts are not in common today? If anything the number of "platforms" is significantly smaller than it was in the 60s with far more commonality in parts. That's how its done.

The Pagoda WAS a "high end" model that cost probably about 2x of an average car at the time. So comparing to a high end model today is entirely fair.

A $300 fuel line? Come on Dan, if I had one here, pre-bent from MB and you wanted it from me, and I gave it to you FOR FREE it would probably cost $300 just to ship the darn thing to you. How big is that box? How about making your own?

Of course some things are "fairly priced" and others no so much. The same can be said for almost anything. My $300 gas dryer (some years old) had a switch that cost $70, and a timer that cost $150. Yes, one part costing 50% of the cost of the dryer when new. The switch was maybe worth about $3 but it was the only one that would fit...

Please send me the detailed breakdown of Daimler's operations where the Classic Car is broken out from other operations. Would provide interesting reading.

You're the guy who worked for MBCA or whatever else you did. Go look for it yourself.

The fuel line isn't sent on a piece of wood so it stays straight. It's a simple part that's coiled up into a spool. Who has been selling MB parts for over thirty years? Me or you?

If someone here, besides you, thinks that I'm not qualified to speak about MB parts prices, please step forward.

[MikeSimon]

I think we all agree - without getting into a battle over bragging rights about who is more qualified - that parts and service costs for cars, modern cars more so than "older" ones, have gotten out of hand. The original post is a tad misleading unless you read it correctly. "Fixing" the part is not just the part. It is the total cost of the repair and that includes a huge amount of labor.
There is a reason why in our area, several "independent" service dealers for European cars are flourishing.
My comment regarding the Audi timing belt issue is common knowledge. I don't think you can brush it away with "bad design"
There was a good engineering reason why they put the timing belt on the rear of the engine. While I do not count out, that certain designs are executed to maximize service cost AND keep the job at authorized dealers.
I can tell you a few stories about that through my over 12 years ownership of several Audi models, but his is not the place.

[Cees Klumper]

I have often reported parts prices for my '90 Ford. Have also bought many parts over recent years for an '86 Nissan,  '72 Lancia and for modern (2000's) Volvos. None compare or come close to Pagoda parts prices, in general (some exceptions mostly where MB is not the only game in town). Two brand new high quality cylinder heads complete with valves installed, $500 delivered to my home (Ford).  What  does MB want these days for a cylinder head? Another issue is the steep increases in prices, far exceeding inflation, over the years. I stopped buying new cars a long time ago but I am not likely to be convinced that Pagoda parts prices, especially from MB, are really reasonable.

[Merc_Girl]

I have a running joke with the Pagoda ‘Shop’ I use in that anything I want doesn’t seem to come in under £1k! Then again I’m a very ‘particular’ girl.

Having said that, the folding metal roof of my Z4 stopped functioning. Even with not going to MB to repair, it cost around £2.5k!! One part costing over £800 as the pneumatic pipe split and ‘good olde’ BMW wouldn’t sell just the pipe (albeit I was going to replace both with the thought if one goes then the other is sure to follow), but had to buy a whole unit that also included the wiring loom!

An interesting thing our local garage said is that folk don’t really want to pay anymore. Garage charges are a lot higher than they were several years back (proportionally wise). So older cars, as they don’t have those damn computer things, take longer to track down the problem, and of course back then, the items would be repaired.

Now, car gets plugged in, the ‘computer says no’, you then have to buy a huge unit to rectify the one little thing that was wrong with it, that usually makes something else go wrong, and so it continues!

Fundamentally, having a car is an expensive business, whether new or old. But old ones are more fun to tinker with 😁

So take a deep breath, relax, and let’s just appreciate what we have

[GM]

A couple of videos by Pierre Hedary are appropriate for this thread:

Old Technology vs New Technology. What's best?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5vcqiSzLkg

Differences between Classic Mercedes & Modern Mercedes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHLW6FTmic

[Pawel66]

Just to throw in my 2 cents, this is one of the things that drove me away form BMW (the main reason was pathetic quality of those cars):

1. Rear brake pads replacement (parts+ladour) at authorized dealership in BMW X5: $400. A pretty regular X5, nothing special.
2. Rear brake pads replacement (parts+labour) at authorized dealership in G55 AMG: $150 (before my discounts).

I have the feeling that at Mercedes the policy is that some of those regular maintenance things are not extremely expensive. Yes, when you get to less common repairs or replacements - that is where it is getting expensive, but I am not sure if it is so much more expensive at Mercedes vs. less prestigous brands.

[MikeSimon]

Another bad example of comparing parts replacement prices. The reason for high cost of pad replacement may be the parking brake. Many of them are electrically actuated. It is necessary to reset the adjustment when the pads that the parking brake uses, are replaced. A special tool is necessary. Causes high prices.

[Cees Klumper]

Hey MikeSimon, the 'special tool' is just a $150 scan tool that is used to diagnose, reset service counters, trouble codes etc. I had one for our 2011 BMW Z4 and I used it to replace my rear brake pads and discs last year. Took all of 1 minute. It's also possible to do it (release/reset the parking e-brake) manually.
The only time I had any of my (many) cars in a professional garage the past 10 or so years was for a starting problem in a 2008 Volvo. After 3 days they (specialized Volvo garage) called me and said they were not able to find the problem, no charge.
A colleague had picked up a used Mercedes S class. Took it into Mercedes in Geneva to have brake discs and pads replaced. They quoted him something like $4,500. I priced the parts for him, $800. He had it done across the border in France for $2,000. It pays to shop around or, better yet, DIY. Another example, a faulty air bag in my 2002 Volvo S80. Dealer wanted $3,500. Using my $150 scan tool I determined wich of the 12 air bags had failed, bought a good used one (warrantied) for $35 and few hours later, problem gone. It's satisfying to DIY also.

[Pawel66]

Another bad example of comparing parts replacement prices. The reason for high cost of pad replacement may be the parking brake. Many of them are electrically actuated. It is necessary to reset the adjustment when the pads that the parking brake uses, are replaced. A special tool is necessary. Causes high prices.

Mike, it is a good example. I do not care about parking brakes and special tools.

When you enter that BMW dealership you are surrounded by 4-5 hostesses on high heels etc. I do not know what for. But I know someone has to pay their salaries.