Timing Marks

[mdsalemi]

Gents,

Sadly in my current role in life, with business and child, I don't personally have the time (uninterrupted and that's the key)nor do I have all the tools (fuel pressure gauges, etc.) to tackle the myriad of potential issues here by myself...nor do I have another set of hands--sometimes you need two sets. That's why it went to Dr. Benz last summer.  To be fair, he did find a few issues but sadly they were not the case.  The car is into another professional at the moment.  If he fails to find the problem I'll bring it to my friend Satish at Motorwerks.  If that doesnt' work I'll have to begin the brute force method (one by one simply replacing everything) or consider shipping it elsewhere?  I don't know, but the cost to ship the car to SL-TECH by the way, is probably the cost of a new fuel pump AND a new fuel tank...all the recommendations regarding the fuel system, I think, were done by Dr. Benz.  Perhaps it needs them again.

I don't generally hem and haw about parts or prices.  If someone showed me definitively that there is something wrong with the internals of the fuel tank, and a new fuel tank would solve the problem, before they finished telling me that I'd be on the phone...and no, the fuel tank did not appear to need replacement at the time of restoration.  Once during the restoration, the restorer was showing me the poor condition of the U-joints on the prop shaft.  Before you could say "Driveline Service of Portland" they were on the phone, and the order was done literally in 90 seconds.

Make certain you understand that this fuel issue is a completely separate and distinct issue from that of the timing marks, as Dr. Benz pointed out.  He thinks the car is haunted.  Great.  Anyone know a witch doctor or shaman?

Karl Heinz said he'd probably start work on the car today, but I must admit that it looks like cars go in but never come out.  There's way too many cars in there in various stages of assembly/disassembly, from the 70's, 80's and a lot of late models as well.  He did come highly recommended by members of the board here on our local MBCA chapter.  I'll keep you posted.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[hands_aus]

Hey Michael,

Impress on Karl that yours is not a PARTS CAR for his other projects.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by hands_aus

Hey Michael,

Impress on Karl that yours is not a PARTS CAR for his other projects.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

Interestingly enough, one of the two other 113's on the premises (the rest of the "lot" is what appears to me to be a bunch of forgettable and unteresting cars from the 80's)is almost a twin of mine in most respects; the other is an earlier 230SL.  Then there's another 113 in the showroom for sale.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[hands_aus]

even more reason to check your car closely.

cynical? you bet!

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[TheEngineer]

He's not being cynical. I got my car because the previous owner did buy it for his wife as a present. They found it leaked so much oil that it was embarassing: The garage floor was always flooded and when they drove it to the country club they were asked to clean up the spot where they had parked. The local Mercedes dealer couldn't fix the leaks and after a few attempts did not charge them any more but said on the invoice: "oil leaks unrepairable" I have that invoice. The previous repair shop wouldn't fix the leaks either. So the man bought his wife a Thunderbird and sold me the Mercedes. It took me 1½ years to trace all the leaks. I also found the floor panels dented where someone had placed a jack. I found sheet metal screws where metric machine screws should be. No Washers in places. No springs for the soft top. The list goes on. I have a bag with removed parts labeled: "F**k ups". The shops don't have time for you. They rather sell you a new car and when it needs repairs, they'd rather sell you another new one. My engine was rebuilt by an "expert shop" They just neglected to put in regular oil for the run-in period. Instead they put in high detergent oil. Therefore the rings never seated in cylinder #5 and #6. And in cylinder #3 they missed the  seal for the intake valve.  Hands aus is not being cynical, just realistic.

[mdsalemi]

Quick update:

1)  Karl Heinz insists that the internals of my fuel tank are disintegrating--rust.  The fuel screen (the FIRST thing that Dr. Benz checked last year) was plugged up.  A new tank is on order.

2)  He is not concerned about the timing issue.  If he can't get to see the timing marks, he'll simply place #1 cylinder at TDC and engrave a new set of marks where they should be.

I won't be convinced about #1 until I do at least 100 miles, and run the tank down low a few times.  #2, I'll trust his judgment.  As Dr. Benz has said, and as the Engineer indicated, the old timing method works well, just time consuming.  And when fuel was flowing it ran so enviably well without issue.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[TheEngineer]

MIke: Don't have him engrave things: That can't be reversed. Rather, when you pull the engine, investigate why the timing maks aren't where they should be. Maybe the key is just sheared. If it runs well with the timing adjusted by Dr. Benz, don't screw with it. Run the tank almost dry ( take a gallon of gas with you in a can) then take out the fuel gage and inspect the tank visually.

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by theengineer

MIke: Don't have him engrave things: That can't be reversed. Rather, when you pull the engine, investigate why the timing maks aren't where they should be. Maybe the key is just sheared. If it runs well with the timing adjusted by Dr. Benz, don't screw with it. Run the tank almost dry ( take a gallon of gas with you in a can) then take out the fuel gage and inspect the tank visually.

When I PULL the engine?!?! Why on earth would I pull the engine?  It was rebuilt by Metric less then 5,000 miles ago!  My guess is its good for another 100,000 miles maybe?  At about 2,500 miles per year we are looking at 40 years before we get there, and I'm afraid I might not be around by then.  Of course there won't be any gasoline anyway!

"Engraving" is a relative thing; making any kind of marks such that he can see them with a strobe.  Pencil, crayon or even a carbide scribe and Sharpie would be OK.  They'll be easily distinguishable from the factory marks anyway, so I don't think it is an issue, at least not to me.

The new tank is on order.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[graphic66]

I like good old office correction fluid to mark the timing marks. In this case it is the perfect simple correction. Sometimes the path of least resistance is best

[Benz Dr.]

Interesting. The fuel tank screen was clean when it left here and there would have to be a lot of fine rust particles to plug it up again that quickly. Doesn't explain why the tank will build up pressure and not vent that off. Maybe it stops venting because there's somethind else going on.
At any rate, a new tank will let all of us sleep better ~)

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Interesting. The fuel tank screen was clean when it left here and there would have to be a lot of fine rust particles to plug it up again that quickly. Doesn't explain why the tank will build up pressure and not vent that off. Maybe it stops venting because there's somethind else going on.
At any rate, a new tank will let all of us sleep better ~)

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org

Yes, we will sleep better, but I'll be convinced when I can run a few tankfulls through and not have an issue...he said the screen was plugged up again.  But in reality I won't sleep better, gotta work overtime to pay for the %$#@ thing!!  Remember that it was on my home from the Barn last June that the trouble occured again--fine rust will do that I guess.  Perhaps there is some sediment sloshing 'round the bottom of the "flower pot" (patent pending and trademarks respected)and if that's the case a cleaning won't last long.

When he gets the tank in, and installed, I'm interested to hear about the timing thing as well.  I'll let you know Dan if you need a new timing light.

And, oh by the way--finally--"Le Gouvernement du Canada" has finally provided my long awaited refund on the GST.  Next time I'll PAY you to drive it over on the ferry--delivered to the USA--and avoid all this mess with taxes!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Naj ✝︎]

So what's in the main fuel filter bowl!
Would be interesting to see.

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[norton]

Mike any news on the timming marks and fuel problems

Mike Halleck
Chesterfield Mi
71 280SL
68 250SL (parts car)
94 E320 Coupe

[mdsalemi]

Gents,

My car is ready for pick up at Karl-Heinz Autocenter.  You asked for the resolution, here it is:

Karl-Heinz hooked up his timing light to #1 plug, and timed my car without issue.  The factory timing marks were where they should be.

Bottom line?  The car was timed perfectly (attaboy, Dr. Benz) and did not need even so much as a smidgen of adjustment.  Pretty good, Dan, for timing the old fashioned way.  When you're hot, you're hot.

However, per your suggestion, maybe you do need to invest in a new timing light, as clearly there was/is something amiss with the one you used on my car?  Or, based upon your results here, who the heck needs one!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[TheEngineer]

Like I said before, doing the "Ping Thing" is really the way to go because it takes into account the grade of fuel (Octane rating) and the change in compression ratio for an individual engine. Like when the head has been resurfaced or there is a lot of carbon in the cylinders. The disk with the timing marks is indexed with two dowels which are offset a little. So the disk can only go on one way. But with my experience with "Genuine approved and authorized Mercedes Repair Specialist Garages" I wouldn't be surprised if Bubba used a bigger wrench and forced the disk on. I'm glad to hear that in your case things were done right. Besides, on this car you have to have the long neck of a bird to work with a timing light,braid your hair and tuck the braids into your shirt. If you don't, your hair gets caught in the fan.

'69 280SL,Signal Red,007537,tired engineer, West-Seattle, WA

[A Dalton]

<<< doing the "Ping Thing" is really the way to go because it takes into account the grade of fuel (Octane rating) and the change in compression ratio for an individual engine. >>

 I agree..and on te subject...

 I also own a 113 predecessor 1956 121 chassis, 190SL and it actually
has a cabin operated advance control knob on the dash along with  "PINKING" adjustment instuctions  for operation in the owners manual ...
 The main reason back then was the Euro countries, and even each town, had varied octane fuels, so the final tune was dependant on fuel supply and owner awareness for the Final Tweak....

[Benz Dr.]

Hummmm...... I bet it's this screwy dial on the light that you use for some kind of pre set or something.

 I tuned by feel. When they're right you '' feel'' it.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org