Author Topic: Number of Pagodas on the roads?  (Read 2333 times)

SEB

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • Germany, Berlin, Berlin
  • Posts: 261
Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« on: October 06, 2021, 18:35:45 »
Has anyone ever tried to find out how many Pagoda drivers there are on the roads now?
I could find our the latest data published by the German KGA ( Federal Motor Vehicle Office). 
So on the German market were totally  per 1.01.2021 registered 4686 Pagodas with following split:
230SL-1924,
250SL-  400,
280SL- 2362.
In the document enclosed the detailed development of the positive trend since 2009. This number are the Pagodas, what are registered. To this we have to add the number of cars in collections, show rooms and projects in the Restoration process.

Are there also in other main for the Pagodas contries like the US, UK, Australia similar data available?
Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7054
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2021, 20:23:39 »
That's amazing.

The popular opinion was that 50% of the cars went to the USA, so only 25,000 were left for the rest of the world. To still have 4686 registered in Germany alone is really very interesting!
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

JamesL

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, London, London
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2021, 20:27:22 »
It looks like we have in the region of
137 230s
112 250s
250 280s

Based on cars on the road /year of first registration. This is on or off road (stored). There’s more if we include cars registered later (imports, for example)
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/mercedes_230_sl#!manufacture
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

Peter

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • Netherlands, North Brabant, Helmond
  • Posts: 469
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2021, 20:46:36 »
According to de RDW (Rijksdienst voor het Wegverkeer) in the Netherlands in 2020:

230 SL   370
250 SL   111
280 SL   471
Total         952

Peter

zak

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, NJ, Bernardsville
  • Posts: 472
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2021, 22:17:01 »
it would be interesting to know how many Pagodas were originally sold in each country - Germany, England and Netherlands. Is that info available somewhere ?
How can we track the number of remaining Pagodas in the US ? We don't have a national DMV.

A bunch of US market Pagodas made the trip back across the pond for restoration and resale in Europe too. Our latest Pagoda issue has that gorgeous restored dunkleblau 280 SL on the cover by the fellow in Germany that started life as a US model. 

jz
1967 250 SL
1983 280 SL
2015 ML 250 Bluetec
2007 ML CDI
2004 E 320 Wagon
1999 E300 Turbodiesel

MikeSimon

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, North Royalton
  • Posts: 2477
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2021, 22:34:06 »
Interesting exercise. In the Honda CBX International Owners Assoc. (CBX Owners' Club) we tried a similar effort. The bike was produced from April 1978 through january 1982 in 4 different model configurations. Existing numbers were relatively easy to obtain from Germany as the "Zulassungsamt" in Flensburg has the numbers. All other countries were more difficult. Based on Honda's data, we could closely estimate a total number produced and based on owners feedbacks, we could also estimate a total number remaining. Similar thing, most units were sold in the U.S. and it was the most difficult to determine how many originally and how many remaining.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

Cees Klumper

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Fallbrook
  • Posts: 5719
    • http://SL113.org
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 01:14:06 »
The UK numbers don't seem complete, especially when compared to the Dutch and German ones. Twice as many Pagodas in NL as opposed to UK, while the UK has almost 5 times the number of people and the car is relatively popular in the UK judging from the number of members here.

I guesstimated the # of surviving Pagodas many years ago at, as I recall, around half of the production number, principally on the arguments that:
- it was a relatively expensive car when new
- bought as a second or third car by relatively well-off people
- with garages and wallets that could afford proper maintenance
- that would not tend to be driven much, especially not in the snow/winters

Important to note that so many cars were shipped back and forth across the oceans from their original country of purchase. Mine for example, it was sold new in the US, then imported at some point to Spain, then brought to the Netherlands where I bought it, then I moved it to Switzerland, later to France and I have considered shipping it here to the US. I think over the past 50 or so years many cars followed similar migration patterns. So looking into how many cars were originally sold where probably will not help much in getting to current numbers. These patterns are influenced by currency fluctuations, relative wealth development, price developments over the decades and so on. Even today many US cars are still ending up in Europe, not many go the other direction I believe.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

SEB

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • Germany, Berlin, Berlin
  • Posts: 261
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 06:22:22 »
it would be interesting to know how many Pagodas were originally sold in each country - Germany, England and Netherlands. Is that info available somewhere ?
At that time the main market for Mercedes was the US market, so the export data a available.
According G. Engelen Mercedes sold:
230SL produced: 19.741- Export 11.726 (4752 to US market),
250SL produced: 5.196- Export 3808 (1761 to US market),
280SL produced: 23.885- Export 18.681 (12.927 to US market).

So this are the official data. But as it was told before this data do not contain the private imports. For instance my 250SL Pagoda was delivered according to the data card in 1967 in Germany, but as I imported it from the US according to the US title I purchased a 1968 250 Pagoda.

What was the reason for this gray imports I do not know? High demand on the US market or price reason?
For sure in this data we can see the growing sales of the Pagoda durring the years to US market.
Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),

JamesL

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, London, London
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2021, 06:43:43 »
Cees,
Currently taxed…
230 - 290 (107 off road)
250 - 150 (35 off road)
280 - 658( 349 off road) - so about 1600 all in

(Numbers I gave before are based on the year of manufacture but, for example, there are 160odd 230s with no clear date of manufacture (on top of the number in my earlier post).
About 160x230s have been registered here for the first time in the past 20 years. )

James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

ScouseJames

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • United Kingdom, England, Croydon
  • Posts: 109
  • 1966 230SL ex Worcester MA.
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2021, 10:50:44 »
Cees,
Currently taxed…
230 - 290 (107 off road)
250 - 150 (35 off road)
280 - 658( 349 off road) - so about 1600 all in

(Numbers I gave before are based on the year of manufacture but, for example, there are 160odd 230s with no clear date of manufacture (on top of the number in my earlier post).
About 160x230s have been registered here for the first time in the past 20 years. )

I'm surprised to read that so many (1098) are taxed for the road.  I know someone with 4/5 Pagodas but I'm just wondering where all the others are as it's not very often they are seen on the road. 

For the record, my own 230SL was imported from the US to the UK in 2014.

MikeSimon

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, North Royalton
  • Posts: 2477
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2021, 12:56:15 »
The used vehicle market between the U.S. and Europe is a unique thing. i can say, because I have been personally involved in this for years.
The main factor, believe it or not, is the currency exchange rate between the US $ and Euro $ ( DM and other national currencies in the past) Wherever the scale tips, the flow of vehicles go due to a huge amount of sellers/buyers exporting/importing themselves.
There are whole businesses based on that alone, keeping warehouses/storage places on both sides of the ocean and sell/transfer whatever yields the largest profit.
At this time any pre-1963/64 Porsche (pre-911) brings about 40% more money in Germany/Europe than here. And they aren't necessarily cheap here. But some of the price hike is because of the demand across the pond.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

SEB

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • Germany, Berlin, Berlin
  • Posts: 261
Re: Number of Pagodas on the roads?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2021, 17:47:21 »
Thank you Gentlemans for all this interesting inputs. Especially the data from Holland and UK are interesting.
Personally I like statistics and I can read it and draw conclusions.
But probably you all heard, what Mark Twain said many years ago already about statistics:
"There are lies, terrible lies and statistics"  :)
Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),