Taillights

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

At a recent Concours, I was told my taillights are not correct for a Germany car, and that they should have amber.  I believe the judge (who happened to be from Italy and thinking an Italy car) was incorrect and according to the Tech Manual all red is proper.  My taillight is shown on the attached picture.  I just want to get some confirmation from our expert members.

jb

[MikeSimon]

I am far from an expert, but my 1971 280SL is a German spec car and has never been changed. The turn signal part of the taillight is indeed yellow/amber
I always was of the opinion that turn signals lenses in Germany must be yellow according to the law. That's why many private US imports with red lenses have to be changed.

[mdsalemi]

I am far from an expert, but my 1971 280SL is a German spec car and has never been changed. The turn signal part of the taillight is indeed yellow/amber
I always was of the opinion that turn signals lenses in Germany must be yellow according to the law. That's why many private US imports with red lenses have to be changed.

Weren't all, by 1971, changed from all red to red/amber? My {January build, USA spec] car came with red/red, but I changed to red/amber, merely for my perceived concept of safety. Amber had long dominated all road cars by the time my restoration got its first license plate in 2001.

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

the car in question is a 1965 230sl vin ending in 10662

jb

[rjmarco]

Here is a photo of the tail light from my 1965 230 SL.  No amber lens.  I have no reason to believe this isn't the original. 

[MikeSimon]

We are talking U.S. vs Germany spec cars. My 1990 US Corvette has red taillight lenses. The same car sold in Germany has red lenses for tail- and brake light and a yellow lens for turn signal. At one time, I thought about changing, because I liked the look better. turned out too difficult, because the wiring is different also. The red lenses have power all the time and additional connection for brake and turn signal. The yellow lens for the German version only has power when the turn signal is used.

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

Could we get some input from European owners, and more specific cars from Germany?

According to what's  noted in the Tech Manual: One modification to the All-Red lights was for cars delivered to Australia, Italy, and perhaps, the UK. These were All-Red style lights with the usual clear Back-Up indicator but on these modified lights the Turn Signal area was Amber not red "

The way it is written, Germany cars were all red?

[BobH]

i'm not an expert by any means, but from what i've been reading on and off this forum, in the UK early 230SL's were delivered with all red lights, i've seen pictures of cars delivered in the UK to John Lennon and others, that have all red lights.  Up until late 1965 the UK MOT test accepted the red indicators (turn signals) but after this date, i understand the car wouldn't pass the test, and hence either the owners changed the lights to amber, or they started to be manufactured and delivered with amber to the UK

Can't comment on what the situation was in other European countries, but clearly the technical manual seems to indicate that German cars were supplied with all red lights

[mdsalemi]

It’s all about safety whether you like it or agree with it or not.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a32718015/turn-signal-dangers-july-2020/

I specifically changed mine from all red to red/amber for earlier information on the matter, over 20 years ago. I never had points deducted for this change, and have been in many judged events. In a Concours one should never receive deductions for safety related items, such as this, or the addition of seat belts on cars that never had them originally.

Unless you are the original owner of a German market car, and know specifically that nothing was ever changed it may a tough call; all red as replacements were unavailable for years. It’s possible that they were changed by a prior owner many years ago.

I'd like to add that a few short years ago, one of our members from Poland was looking for an "original" late 280SL. Turns out one of my friends had one, an elderly German woman who lived nearby. It was a 1971 model, one of the last, and she owned it from new, and used it for daily use for many years. She insisted it was all original, and never crashed or rusted. Well, our Polish friend comes over to Michigan to buy it, and negotiate with my friend, and he bought the car. However in very close inspection it appears that a number of subtle things were changed, and evidence of partial rust and body repairs became evident. Our Polish friend still bought the car, but restored it instead, where other non-original things were discovered. So, even the original owner didn't have full knowledge of what her mechanic did on it, and little recollection of the time she was "tapped" in a very minor rear-end collision 40 years prior...

[ejboyd5]

Many years before the subject car was built, Mercedes was supplying amber turn signal lenses as witnessed by this picture of David Douglas Duncan's famed 1956, "Black Torpedo." The car was given to Duncan by Mercedes-Benz as payment for a series of photographs of the 300 SL Roadster prototype and was collected by Duncan at the factory. 

[MikeSimon]

Unless you are the original owner of a German market car, and know specifically that nothing was ever changed it may a tough call; all red as replacements were unavailable for years. It’s possible that they were changed by a prior owner many years ago.

 

I am the owner of an original German car. Although it resides in the U.S. now, it is still exactly as I bought it in Germany in 1982 and drove it there for 6 years before I brought it to the U.S.
It is in the same condition, basically, as the original owner bought it in December of 1970. 280SL. Amber/yellow turn signal lenses.

There is a parallel discussion going on in a separate thread about the same thing. And German "experts" have chimed in

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=33734.0

[114015]

Absolutely right, Mike.

According to what's  noted in the Tech Manual: One modification to the All-Red lights was for cars delivered to Australia, Italy, and perhaps, the UK. These were All-Red style lights with the usual clear Back-Up indicator but on these modified lights the Turn Signal area was Amber not red "
The way it is written, Germany cars were all red?

Yes, John.
That's correct. All 230ies/250s and 280 SLs until VIN 011040 had the early style taillights (the ones we usually refer to "all red". From those "early ones" there was the subtype with amber turnsignal lens (AU, IT and UK from sometime onwards) and the French style (red turnsignal, amber backup light).
VIN No. 011040 counts only for the US delivery cars, the non-US delivered cars (like European or German or wheresoever) had the change toward the late 280 SL style taillights at serial no. 007398.

Thus, yours, John, is correct.

Please, just read our WIKI section about taillights. It's all in there.

Achim