Bundt rims or not .

[zak]

Thank you for the technical info gents. All very interesting.
So what's the take away here ?

Is aluminium steelies with factory sized (?) 185/78/14 tires the best performing combo for lightness of handling and damping etc. ?
Our cars originally came with skinny tires. Specracers analogy to the skinny bicycle tires is well taken.

Or is 15inch diameter bundt wheels with 205/70/15 tires the best performing/driving combo for road holding and grip ??

Of course, we choose our own poison on this. But I would love to be able to buy the orig Michelin X radial that I see now in smaller/skinnier sizes. I love the look.

My 2 cents.
thanks,

jz

[teahead]

185/78-14s are roughly the same height as 205/70-14.

205/70-15 is a bit taller than OEM height.

Better handling will be with lighter wheels and wider tires.


a 15" bundt wheel may be the same weight as a 14" steel wheel.

[mdsalemi]

I'd hardly call 185-14s "skinny" tires; they were actually a bit oversized compared to other similar sized import cars and roadsters of the era. My little Austin 1200 sedan had 12" tires; and MGB 155-14; a Midget ran 13". My Datsun 510 had 155-13. Even my 1979 BMW 320i (E21) had 185-70-13. So 14" tires on a 2 seat roadster (with the exception of a Triumph TR6, the outlier!) were by themselves a bit uncommon in their size; they were a bit larger. Probably a more accurate description may be "appropriately sized". In the same era, most larger domestic cars had 15" wheels. Don't think 16s and larger were common at the time.

I run the pressed aluminum wheels and the car does feel a bit more nimble on its feet than with the pressed steel wheels--as it should. I believe these are among the lightest wheels you can get.

[MikeSimon]

Seriously, I cannot see any reason I would pick one part over another on a Pagoda SL for performance reasons. The car is a vintage vehicle and the joy is in driving it in any form and not to try to race a Honda Civic R 

[UJJ]

My main reason to go to 15" Bundt rims is the choice of tires available, less un sprung weight and Safety. The better handling just came with it. I live in the Sierra foothills with a lot of up and down and tight corners. The other day I came around a corner and faced a deer! I was barely able to steer my way around it. I am not sure if I would have made it without this setup.
I do not drive any faster then before, I just like the improved driving experience and the other reasons mentioned above.
I have Michelin 205/65R15 94 H tires fitted which is very close to the same OD than the original setup.
No chasing Hondas here...
Best, Urban

[zak]

To beat a dead horse, I have to ask about wire wheels ( with those cool knock off ears and brass hammer ) that British cars seemed to favor back in the day.
Did MB ever put a wire wheel on any post war model ? The Gullwing knock off wheels were not wires.
Are the wire wheel rims even lighter in weight then all the others ?

jz

[mdsalemi]

One of my friends in Michigan had a Pagoda with wire wheels. They were not true knock offs because I don’t believe there were ever splined hubs made for the Pagoda. But I could be wrong I didn’t ever really look at it close enough. I couldn’t do it without cracking up laughing.

There were some fat oversized American tires on these wheels. There was also some chrome fender spats. It was laughably ridiculous, but so very period-appropriate for the 1970s when somebody did this.

Can’t you just imagine somebody in a plaid leisure suit and oversized aviator sunglasses stepping out of such a creation?

[Mike Hughes]

The typical wire wheels with steel rims are not noticeably lighter than a steel disc wheel.  However, if you look closely at the wire wheels on the Stirling Moss 300 SLR "722" you will see the sort of light weight alloy rim wire wheels, often made by Borrani or Rudge, that were fitted to high performance racing, sports and grand touring cars for decades.  The splined hub with eared "knock-off" fixing nut allowed for quick tire changes in competition. In the drum brake era, wire wheels were favored in competition because they allowed maximum exposure of the drums to cooling ambient air. Still in use in the disc brake era, they were eventually supplanted by lighter and less maintenance intensive alloy wheels with large cooling slots developed by Dunlop, Minilite, American Racing and others.

[zak]

That makes perfect sense about the brake cooling factor.
Were bicycle tire rims adapted to cars in the early days of motoring ?

jz   

[Shvegel]

My car came with steels and wheel covers,  switched to Bundts, didn't like it, switched to steels and wheel covers, thinking about switching back to bundts.

[ja17]

Just keep a set of both with tires mounted and you can change whenever you like!

[mazmonza]

I have on my car Bundt Forged 15" wheels with Goodyear 205- 65 tyres, they weigh 18kg.

I have an original wheel and tyre 185- HR 14 that was the unused spare that came with my car when I purchased in the 70's this weighs 19.7 kg. I don't  know how much difference this makes to the handling I have used them for so many years I can't  remember. I originaly bought the 15's to get better tyres. I don't  know if the Cast aftermarket Bundt's are lighter perhaps someone can say, also what is the weight  of the a Aluminium Steely with tyre, I imagine  it will be lighter than the Bundt as it is 14".

Maurice

[Shvegel]

Good idea Joe!  I was actually thinking that the wheel covers needed white walls so maybe I can do them on the steel wheels.

[Benz Dr.]

Seriously, I cannot see any reason I would pick one part over another on a Pagoda SL for performance reasons. The car is a vintage vehicle and the joy is in driving it in any form and not to try to race a Honda Civic R 

Oooh....careful there Mike. You called your car vintage.

[MikeSimon]

Oooh....careful there Mike. You called your car vintage.

It is in my book. That's all that matters. So is my 71 Porsche 914-6 and (almost) my 1990 Corvette ZR1
Anything I can get a historic plate on here in Ohio, I call "Vintage".
I have a complete set of early 1980s Pioneer high end stereo, that was called "Vintage" by an "expert".

[JamesL]

Hey, I’ve got a 1981 Rolex that I’ve just been told is a “vintage piece”. By Rolex.

[MikeSimon]

We are all on the "older" side of the car owner population. And it seems, time flies. We tend to think the "Eighties" were just a few years ago. And yet, almost 40 years have passed.
If you think about it, 40 years before some of us were born, there were not commercial airplanes...

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi Guys,
I have an E Type which I fitted new wire wheels and as someone mentioned, they are pretty heavy. I can weight them if someone really wants to know.
I am very sorry that I never thought of buying the wider than standard sizes and I would looove a set of 15 x7 Bundt wheels for my Pagoda.
Regards
Chris
Cape Town

Apologies Guys, there is no point to my post. However, I hope and trust, Santa might pay attention.