1964 Mercedes Benz 230SL Roadster ZF 5 Speed - $53,900

[HJ Neals]

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ctd/d/orange-1964-mercedes-benz-230sl/7420731436.html

Another Unique find on CRAIGSLIST this time California. Not my favorite color combo but hey I live in NY area so taxi yellow ehh...

INFO AT LINK ABOVE

[Bonnyboy]

That colour just doesn't do it for me, even though I have an equally unappealing colour MGB which I love (its color is Citron)  -  the white 230sl lurking behind is $10,000 less and looks much more appealing. 

[georgem]

The price is listed at $53,900 and has (orange) immediately after it - does the "orange" have some significance?

[johnk]

If there ever was such a thing as an ugly Pagoda this one is it

[JamesL]

The price is listed at $53,900 and has (orange) immediately after it - does the "orange" have some significance?

Orange, I’m guessing is Orange County

[Garry]

If it was a genuine data carded 5 speed and not just a converted one, then a total respray to correct original colour and you have a very collectable and valuable car.

[Pawel66]

Looks like a car for full restoration, but at this price and this rare configuration, I think it is a good offer.

[Garry]

Pawel,


So long as it is a genuine five speed as there are probably double the number of five speed gearbox cars out there than ever produced.


So only a rare configuration if the data card shows the 5 speed option otherwise it’s extra worth would only be the value of the gear box plus a standard 4 speed manual.

[Pawel66]

Yes, exactly, it has to be the real one.

[Pawel66]

This is her plate.
It was beige, not orange, certainly, as seen on one of the pictures where upper part of wheel arch was seen under hood (bonnet). Part of engine bay was painted black, but wheel arch was left beige.

No options mentioned on the plate. I also enclose one of the underside pictures - the only one where you can see the gear box. I do not know enough to tell if it is a ZF.

[Cees Klumper]

The car looks great to me, would not want to see it restored (unless there are rust issues).
It's very close to me, happy to go check it out?

[Benz Dr.]

Looks like a ZF 5 speed to me but it would not be an original car. The 5 speed option became available in May/June of 1966 so the 230SL 5 speed is the rarest of all three models. Maybe 100 cars built. My car doesn't show anything for the 5 speed option either yet I know it's an original car. All pieces are factory with no mods anywhere.

[Jonny B]

Wow, what a mash up. Curious as to how the heater works. It appears that there is a hose going to the valve side of the heater core (by the booster) and the other heater connection is left open??

[Pawel66]

The car looks great to me, would not want to see it restored (unless there are rust issues).
It's very close to me, happy to go check it out?

Quite a lot of rust, actually. They quote website where you can see more pictures.

[Mike Hughes]

I can't find any trace of a body number stamp on the underside of the hood.

[specracer]

As it's not body color (beige or yellow) , and black, I would immediately be suspect, that it is not the original hood, further confirmed by your observation.

I can't find any trace of a body number stamp on the underside of the hood.

[HJ Neals]

You guys are all Pros now I know where to post these "in the wild" Pagoda's. No comments on the fuel pump below this post, sort of surprising.

[Benz Dr.]

Focusing on minutia is exactly the wrong approach. Until such things as head light notches and stamped numbers all over the car were made known, what did you look for in a pagoda?

[Cees Klumper]

I must say I agree with Dan, I am really not interested in whether a hood is original or not and when I had my Pagoda repainted, I did not even want to ask the paintshop to recreate fender notches. I've reported before I was not interested in stamping the original engine number in the replacement engine - which would make it indistinguishable from the actual original engine, so what does that mean. Nor have I ever considered getting a data card for my car. I probably will only if I would want to sell it but, for me, what matters is that it looks great and drives great and is in solid mechanical condition. But it's clear Dan and I are in the minority! No problem of course.
Back to this car, I did spot some rust in only one photo so Pawell is correct, and there is likely some more, but I still do like this car, and at that price I think it's reasonable.

[Mike Hughes]

Focusing on minutia is exactly the wrong approach. Until such things as head light notches and stamped numbers all over the car were made known, what did you look for in a pagoda?

Actually, those were the exact two things (along with checking under the trunk mat) that I was told to look for by a dear friend (who owned two Pagodas himself) when I was first seeking to find one way back in the early 1980's.  His reasoning, back when Pagodas were merely used cars and not all that expensive to obtain, was that those two features would be clues that the vehicle one was looking at might not have had any collision repair work performed - particularly in the front, which he felt at the time was more expensive to put right than the car might be worth.

[mdsalemi]

I must say I agree with Dan, I am really not interested in whether a hood is original or not and when I had my Pagoda repainted, I did not even want to ask the paintshop to recreate fender notches. I've reported before I was not interested in stamping the original engine number in the replacement engine - which would make it indistinguishable from the actual original engine, so what does that mean. Nor have I ever considered getting a data card for my car. I probably will only if I would want to sell it but, for me, what matters is that it looks great and drives great and is in solid mechanical condition. But it's clear Dan and I are in the minority! No problem of course.
Back to this car, I did spot some rust in only one photo so Pawell is correct, and there is likely some more, but I still do like this car, and at that price I think it's reasonable.

An honest self-appraisal! I have a data card only because when I got it, the Classic Center offered them for free. No fancy certificate, just a rather dreadful looking poor quality Xerox from a microfiche. Whether the hood is original or not, to me (count me in, Cees, Dan) is absolutely irrelevant. Mine is NOT. How the hood that's there FITS and WORKS (i.e. opens and closes properly) is paramount over originality. I never bothered to check on my data card or any other sources if the engine number is original to the car. Doesn't matter to me at least. The engine is the correct engine, and is in good tune.

[Benz Dr.]

WOW!  We agree on something?!  Break out the beer!   

[Alex D]

Unless someone can say it's a factory 5 speed for sure, there are many who think 4 gears and R makes for a 5 speed and thus advertise as such either out of ignorance or intentionally trying to deceive someone.  Any time someone says they have a factory 5 speed Pagoda it needs to be questioned as what their definition of 5 speed is.

I actually met someone who really thought the 4 gears +R means 5 speed, he could not understand why it was not a 5 speed, I just gave up and wished him well.  Same person has been trying to sell his car for 12 years, I wonder why.

[Benz Dr.]

Now the disagreeable part:

Only real ZF S 20 5 speed car can be called a 5 speed pagoda. You can put something else in it that has 5or even 6 speeds and it's an add on.

Now for the hate mail.    Drum roll please.......

[MikeSimon]

Never heard of ANY motorhead who would consider the "R" being part of the "speed count" in a transmission. There are too many people in our "hobby" that are in it for the wrong reason!