New member, need some help :-[

[taiginda]

Hi, i'm tai from thailand.
I'm interest to buy the 250 sl model, but had some issue

my 250 sl car history as the seller said it's come from japan. but i see the orginal car reciepe that from usa (i didnt concern about this point)

The Problem is some document  that i found in this car (i guess it come with the car as original), The VIN number is 113043-12-000099 // but the VIN number at car is 113043-12-008099
and as i know the 250sl production number is just  5196. so i guess something went wrong with this vin number
the real VIN should be 113043-12-000099 // (the car already register in thailand as 008099, so i think i cant do anything about that)

what is your guy opinion ?? , should i invest in this car or not

anyway this car come with the price that below thailand market standard with many part of interior.

so if it's not the big deal, i will consider to buy this car

[taiginda]

Anyway, some part of this car is had to fix also, and the engine is not original

[SEB]

Hi
I am not an expert in this field, but as an owner also of a 250SL Pagoda I feel a little called in to the board.
May be this is an human mistake?
As I purchased my 250SE Coupe, car with a replacement engine- in the data card was the engine number 129.980-12-xxxxxx, but on the replacement engine somebody stamp 129.981-12-xxxxxx.

[lreppond]

I’m am not an expert by any stretch.  But I think the least of this car’s problems is it’s VIN!   Parts seem to be missing and there appears to be visible rust damage.  I would guess the rust is far more extensive than what one can see. 

I would locate a trained professional, experienced in w113s, to fully inspect this car and give you an unbiased appraisal of its current condition and what it will take to get it safe and running properly.

[MikeSimon]

That is strange indeed. It looks like the car at one time was owned by a U.S. Military member (APO address) maybe stationed in Germany (Mainz dealer invoice for repairs)
Maybe he bought it in Germany with US specs. Common practice for military members.
The VIN number stamped on the frame rail is indeed strange. It almost looks like it was restamped. Why would it say ..8099??

[taiginda]

Hi
I am not an expert in this field, but as an owner also of a 250SL Pagoda I feel a little called in to the board.
May be this is an human mistake?
As I purchased my 250SE Coupe, car with a replacement engine- in the data card was the engine number 129.980-12-xxxxxx, but on the replacement engine somebody stamp 129.981-12-xxxxxx.

i Hope it will be this reason 

I’m am not an expert by any stretch.  But I think the least of this car’s problems is it’s VIN!   Parts seem to be missing and there appears to be visible rust damage.  I would guess the rust is far more extensive than what one can see. 

I would locate a trained professional, experienced in w113s, to fully inspect this car and give you an unbiased appraisal of its current condition and what it will take to get it safe and running properly.

thank you for your recommend, as this model in thailand is very rare, so even i have to do restore and fix all problem it's still in a good price , if no problem with the vin number

That is strange indeed. It looks like the car at one time was owned by a U.S. Military member (APO address) maybe stationed in Germany (Mainz dealer invoice for repairs)
Maybe he bought it in Germany with US specs. Common practice for military members.
The VIN number stamped on the frame rail is indeed strange. It almost looks like it was restamped. Why would it say ..8099??

HI, that is my major concern. i didnt sure about the VIN number (may be mistake from restamped ? they miss the 0 to 8  )

[john.mancini]

Here's my two cents worth: Unless they give you that car for free, walk away and have an expert find you a worthy car.

[lreppond]

Here's my two cents worth: Unless they give you that car for free, walk away and have an expert find you a worthy car.

I could not agree MORE!

[Pinder]

the vin number stamping on the frame seems too clean but maybe the 250SL is supposed to look like that?

[mnahon]

When I look at that first picture of the chassis stamping, it seems as though there's a thin strip of metal on which the numbers are stamped, as opposed to the numbers being stamped on the body sheet metal.

I agree with Pinder that the stamping seems very clean, maybe too clean. Below is the stamping from another 250SL that looks more authentic.

Also, there should be a VIN plate on the car, either on the firewall or on the driver door pillar. Is it missing?

[mdsalemi]

Obsessing over a VIN and the quality of the stamping is in a word, silly.
The very obvious question isn't answered: does it run? If so, how well?
My car when inherited, was in considerably worse condition than that shown. See attached.
As for paperwork, it didn't have ANY...nothing that could be used for registration or license and insurance. That all had to be created with an inspection by state authorities.
And yet, a beautiful car emerged from restoration after 2 years and 1,000 hours. [gulp]

So, you need to assess the condition of the car, how it runs, the extent of and damage and missing parts, and your ability to afford it in remote Thailand. How difficult is it to import parts in order to complete the restoration?. I'd tend to agree with SEB that a slipped digit in the VIN may have been a human error. It may be difficult to register properly in Thailand with such an error and if so that would need to be sorted out. But how well the car runs is the first consideration. Missing parts is another as some are exceedingly costly.

[mBdrvr]

You shoukld contact Mercedes-Benz Owners Club of Thailand. They are recognized by Mercedes-Benz Classic as a "Brand" club.

They have a Facebook page and probably other ways to contact them.

Someone there will be able to guide you.

[Pinder]

Ill stick with my observation that that vin number appears to be scribed and not stamped. But maybe it does not matter as long as the vin is there and overall condition is good.

[Benz Dr.]

The VIN was stamped into the frame rail first and then the whole body was coated with primer when the car was built. The VIN area was covered with a piece of masking tape and then the body was painted.
This attempt was poorly masked and painted at one point but the numbering with font looks OK to me.   

[Jordan]

Am I missing something?  There is no 250SL with the VIN number stamped on the frame rail.  I don't care how good or bad the car looks, the VIN doesn't exist so something is definitely off here.

[MikeSimon]

Am I missing something?  There is no 250SL with the VIN number stamped on the frame rail.  I don't care how good or bad the car looks, the VIN doesn't exist so something is definitely off here.

Well, that's a point of view nobody has considered. I have no idea.

[Pawel66]

Am I missing something?  There is no 250SL with the VIN number stamped on the frame rail.  I don't care how good or bad the car looks, the VIN doesn't exist so something is definitely off here.

That was the original question of the author of this thread. The documents provided are stating the correct VIN number. There is a wrong VIN number on the chassis. It is difficult to imagine how this could happen, not assuming someone's bad will. I foresee lots of legal issues and unnecessary uncertainty. I would walk away from this car, leaving it up to the current owner to clarify.

[johnk]

I certainly don’t know about Thailand but in Ohio I was told their is a not to difficult correction process if the VIN is off a number, specially if the wrong number is out of the manufacturers sequence.

[taiginda]

Hi, thank for all info from this community. It’s help me so much.

At first, the w113 market price in thailand is around 200,000-250,000 US.Dollar (not fully restore price) and nobody sell

This car is around 100,000 US.Dollar and i also cannot effort 200,000 US.Dollar
And for restoration cost, i can do it slowly

In thailand we have many case about iilegal car
But anyway this car the owner garuntee for the tranfer process ( in thailand it’s mean legal 95%)

The point is

1. 8099 is the wrong number right?(from the production number, i didn’t sure, does it can assume that 0001 is the first car and the 8099 is the number of production or it can be 8099 in theory)

2. I will find more picture at driver door pillar and firewall for more info .

IMO
If this wrong vin number, are from the human error or from  the  error of restamped  not from the other reason, personally, i thought i’m ok to take a chance.

(In thailand we have many complicated issue ex. Half frame car, VIN replace that the issue i worried)

[Jordan]

taiginda, the problem you have is that the VIN on the paperwork does not match the VIN for the car.  There were only 5196 250SL's made so the first 250SL would have been 000001 and the last one would have been 005196.  There was never a 250SL with the VIN ending in 008099.  It is not human error on the part of Mercedes Benz.

There should be a VIN tag on the firewall.  What does it tell you?  Is the VIN number on the frame rail stamped into the frame rail or into a steel strip attached to the frame rail?  It is difficult to tell from the picture. 

[johnk]

If the machine that stamped the VIN number jammed and stamped the number off by one digit do you thing Mercedes’ would destroy the chassis? They might have caught it until after the car was built.  Who knows.

[mdsalemi]

Is the car in Thailand now? If not, this may be too much trouble to sort out. If you cannot get further information on the actual car (as opposed to paperwork) to ensure that the paperwork is indeed for this car, this may be trouble...especially in Thailand. If the car is already there

As for accidental stamping that is entirely possible. One non-automotive item whose records are as meticulous as Mercedes, and whose products are restored just as often, are Steinway pianos. I have one that has been restored. The serial number of the piano indicated that it was one model, and delivered to a dealer in San Francisco in April, 1918. Well, that didn't really mesh with the information I had. In examining the piano further I found another stamping of the number on a hidden wood piece. That number was correct: and digits were transposed, purely by accident, in the restoration. Stuff happens. There was nothing nefarious in the case of my piano--but there are some unscrupulous people out there with cars.

One would think in a carefully crafted operation to cheat someone or present a car with a questionable background as honest, they would have at least made the numbers match!

[MikeSimon]

What about Jordan's comment about no 250SL with the VIN stamped on the frame rail? Is this correct?

[mdsalemi]

What about Jordan's comment about no 250SL with the VIN stamped on the frame rail? Is this correct?

Best if someone with an untouched 250SL answers that...but the answer would only be accurate if suffixed by "...from the factory as new."

It isn't uncommon for some people to stamp VINs or other identifying marks on some solid piece of a car. A data tag is--and can be--easily removed. Mine was. Had to have one fabricated. Thankfully the little tag stuck on the inside of the windscreen was there on mine...and even with two windshield changes they always put it back.

[Pinder]

Sometimes you have to take a chance. If the metal is solid.