New member, need some help :-[

[johnk]

I have to ask, what’s the cost/probability of shipping a really nice one from the US without all of the issues and a lot less expensive to buy?

[Pinder]

I was thinking the same.

[MikeSimon]

I am still unclear about this and nobody wants to answer this: My 1971 280SL has the VIN stamped in the metal on the frame rail. Did 250SLs have that too?

[Pawel66]

Mike, which location exactly - the lateral member under the inlet pipe?

[Jonny B]

My 250 SL, early car, has the VIN stamped on  the frame rail, just under the inlet manifold.

[JamesL]

I have to ask, what’s the cost/probability of shipping a really nice one from the US without all of the issues and a lot less expensive to buy?

May well be a load less expensive to buy and shipping US to Asia cannot be a fortune BUT  I'd guess import duties might be a big factor that end.

Quick google: At present, cars are subjected to an 80% import tax while parts and components enjoy 30% duties.... The Customs Department reported that personal used car imports in 2018 totalled at 100 units. Starting Dec. 10, Thailand will no longer allow imports of used cars to reduce pollution, curtail smuggling and improve road safety. ... Those that violate the ban face penalties of up to 10 years in prison or a fine equal to five times the value of the imported goods – as specified by import law.(Bangkok Post, July 219)

 I'm guessing skilled metalwork guys are "cheap" in my terms so if the car is there and is what it purports to be, buy/restore is the only realistic option. But you could argue that with a completely closed market/finite supply, even a dodgy VIN print would find a local buyer eventually - though exporting may be more of a challenge

[kampala]

I am still unclear about this and nobody wants to answer this: My 1971 280SL has the VIN stamped in the metal on the frame rail. Did 250SLs have that too?

of course 250sl's have vin stamped on frame rail just like all other w113's (yes mine has it). 

I think what Jordan intended is that PARTICULAR vin (8099?) does not exist in a 250 vin.  8099 is possible in a 230 or a 280 but there were only about 5,000 250's so an 8099 would not exist.

[mdsalemi]

I have to ask, what’s the cost/probability of shipping a really nice one from the US without all of the issues and a lot less expensive to buy?

Two interesting things to say about that. Under normal circumstances and to a normal country with normal rules and regulations that are clear and well-defined and shall we say to Western morals, that is a good question to ask.

For those that have my book Pagoda Style, there is an interesting story about the import of a car into Spain… it wasn’t all that easy. The owners name was Vince Mulvey.

The other thing I have to add is about import of hard goods into Thailand. Some years back when I was in the computer business I sold a lot of computer hardware for printing--7 tons, in crates. We arranged export from Boston and the buyer arranged import into Bangkok. When it came time to clear through customs there were of course some problems for the new owners. And, honest to goodness, the solution to the problem was going down to the customs office with briefcases full of cash. This was the only way to clear the items through customs: payoffs. If I hadn’t seen it for myself I wouldn’t have believed it. As a farang (foreigner) in Thailand this is not something I would’ve even attempted; but the local who had bought the equipment from me knew what had to be done. While in the end it was relatively easy it certainly was not cheap. But he knew that going in.

As a sidebar to that latter story, those crates--custom fabricated in Boston out of OSB and 2 x 4s, proved to be a valuable scrap commodity in Bangkok. They ended up being repurposed into furniture in a local restaurant. I didn't know that until I sat down at the restaurant and saw my company name stenciled on the table!

[Pinder]

I was reading up some more on this and process of import into Thailand. Its seems like if you are working there you can import a car temporarily. IF you want to keep it there a 200% tax has to be paid. or something along those lines. hence why if there is a car there already with a good vin or not it might be worth taking on the risk.

[taiginda]

Hi, more detail here

[taiginda]

 

[taiginda]

 

[taiginda]

 

[Jordan]

From your pictures I would be even more concerned about this car.  There is no data plate and there doesn't appear to be a VIN tag.  The VIN tag should be located on the firewall (circled area).  Can you run your fingers over the firewall to see if you can feel something underneath?  If you can maybe you can lift the firewall pad. 

I can't tell from the pic but is that an engine tag that says 230SL?

Your pictures just reinforce my belief in walking away from this car.  No data plate, no VIN tag and the VIN on the frame is for a car that does not exist.

[kampala]

It only got worse.

No vin tag
No data plate - and screw holes covered up, seems intentional to me
No soft top frame $$$
Rust in first batch of photos
Wrong VIN stamp
Not sure if panel gaps are a mess or door not closed properly.


Would you ever be able to sell this mixed car with wrong vin etc etc etc when you eventually want to sell?  Who would buy it?

Even with massive duties if you import a car that needs a lot of work, that you buy for 40% of the cost of this car, at least it would be what the paperwork and data plate, vin tag, stamp say it is.   I know labor costs in your country may be quite affordable, but parts are parts. Getting a complete car with legitimate docs that needs lots of labor would be my choice.  And you can sell it later.

[114015]

Aslam (Kampala) summed up the situation completely.
A VIN 113043-12-008099 does not exist. That's it. Most likely your car was (according to the accompanied paperwork) VIN no. 000099.
At which stage your car got "a new VIN" I don't understand. For me the area on the frame rail, where your VIN number is located,
looks "artificial"; it looks too proper. It looks to me as if it was "filled properly with lead" and a new or better readable VIN was stamped in.

If you want to go through the hassle and remove the lead with a torch and see what's underneath  - hopefully the correct VIN, or something strange..., but you may probably only do so after you have already bought the car. No seller in the world would allow so...
if I were you, go and run.
Look for a more accurate SL - at least with undoubtful legitimate paperwork and VIN.
This car here is not!

Just my 2 cents....
Achim

[mdsalemi]

You all are reading WAY too much into this about the VIN and data tags.

Even the most crooked who is going to try and pull some kind of fraud is going to do so with NUMBERS MATCHING! Is this so difficult to understand? Why would somebody knowingly try to engineer a fraudulent car and sale of car, and NOT MAKE the numbers match the paperwork? They would NOT. They would put some effort into making everything match. If you are trying to be fraudulent you don't let on at the beginning that things are not right. If that would be the case it would be far more cost effective to part the car out rather than sell it whole.

As for data plates, I've seen people with collections of them. Where do you think these come from?  When our Pagodas were, not all that long ago, just older cars that didn't get $200,000 restorations, lots of little details were overlooked. Fender notches for one; how many cars that were worked on the 1970s, and 1980s and even later, never had these put back because they didn't know? How many had data plates removed and never replaced? I'll tell you one prime example: mine. Yes, the first body work on mine (since removed and re-done) was done by a "slap and dash" taxi garage in NYC. No data plate on the body either.

Some years back, with the assistance of someone here (before the Daimler lawyers shut them down) I had a body data plate properly made. I never had one before. I can tell you with 100% certainty that my "fake" data plate is far more original in appearance than the one you can buy from the classic center, either in Germany or the USA. Yes, the fake much better than a replacement. Not as good as the original of course but that was probably laying on the floor of a taxi garage and swept into the trash decades ago.

None of this has anything to do with being able to accept a car or walk away. The original poster didn't answer several important questions, instead, he's focused on posting lots of photos of the car and the paperwork. These questions are: how does the car run? Is it already in Thailand?

[Jordan]

You all are reading WAY too much into this about the VIN and data tags.

Even the most crooked who is going to try and pull some kind of fraud is going to do so with NUMBERS MATCHING! Is this so difficult to understand? Why would somebody knowingly try to engineer a fraudulent car and sale of car, and NOT MAKE the numbers match the paperwork?

Uh, maybe it's because there are a lot of stupid people out there.  And it is absolutely ludicrous to think that MB could have made this mistake at the factory and allowed it to go to market like this.  Either that or there are bone heads working at MB as well. 

[MikeSimon]

Few may be interested in this, but the car also has the Alloy wheel spare holder in the trunk! This was installed by the factory only on late model 280SLs which were ordered with Fuchs alloys (Bundts). Of course, this could have been installed later, but the fact that the car has steel wheels is puzzling.

One thing we know for sure is, that the car with VIN ..0099 was delivered in Germany to a member of the U.S. military, and thus most likely with U.S. specs. When did the VIN plate for U.S. models move from the firewall to the door pillars?
The German repair shop invoices from the Niederlassung Mainz from 1983 refer to VIN ..0099