Non Ethanol Gas $

[Alex D]

Normally I fill up gas at about 1/4 left in the tank or slightly below, as I don't trust the accuracy of a 54 year fuel gage and do not want to find out the hard way. Normally I use 93 ethanol free, luckly enough to have several gas stations near by that have the 93 non ethanol on a regular basis, and it usually costs a few cents more per gallon than the 90+ octane premiums, so I figure it's worth the few extra cents for the 93 non ethanol.

Yesterday I got caught off guard with the fuel guage showing almost completely empty, I go fill up the tank, and almost fell over, $92 to fill up the with 93 non ethanol, not sure going to any 90+premium octans would have been any better.

Definately going change some of the driving habits for the summer, anyone else?

Alex

[mdsalemi]

If you know where to look for it around here non-ethanol gas is readily available. After all this part of the state is the NASCAR capital of the world and there are a lot of people who think they are NASCAR drivers with older muscle cars. As an aside we are around North Carolina’s largest lake and the marine folks like to use non-ethanol gas. I think I only bought that once last year and it was more than a few pennies more than premium more like $.30 a gallon or $.40 a gallon more one gas was a lot less costly.

In the 22 years since restoration and about 20,000 miles of driving all but one tank of gas was with ethanol fuel. I had one fuel line go on me, the one that attaches to the outfeed of the fuel pump into the hard line at the rear of the car. It lasted about 15 years or so and cost about $20 to change…

My car has not demanded non-ethanol fuel but it does demand premium octane. So at 16 miles per gallon I’m probably not going to do a lot of driving, every day I see that the fuel prices are up!

But talk about changing driving habits, yesterday I was going to run to Lowe’s or Home Depot to get some things and instead went online to Amazon and it will all be delivered today.

[Jonny B]

I don't think I have ever used non-ethanol gas in my car (19 years and counting). Those of us in the US should not be hollering too much about gas prices. Just ask some of the folks in Europe...

Here in California, unleaded premium is about $6.30 a gallon. My last fill up for the 280 SL crested the $100 mark.

[JamesL]

Wow. Prices there have gone up. They’re up here too but we’re at about $8.35 a US gallon (3.78litres) but have been well over $7.50 for years.
That’s 10%ethanol, 95RON (US 91) Not sure I’ve seen non-ethanol for a while…

Premium - 93/5% is running about $8.60 a gallon near me.

 The difference in price is much lower than it used to be.



Edit for brain fart , forgot fx…

[neelyrc]

I filled up the 113 with 93 Octane non-ethanol about a week ago in Birmingham for USD 5.30 per US gallon.  Today I filled up the 107 with 93 Octane - 10 percent ethanol for USD 4.68 per gallon. Quite a premium for the ethanol free. 

I’m off to Italy in about two weeks and dreading the European fuel prices.  I use diesel in both my vehicles there and unlike the US, diesel is a few percent cheaper than gasoline. Still north of USD 7.00 per gallon!

[Jordan]

Just returned from Germany and 10% ethanol gas was running 1.98 to 2.08 Euros per litre.  Belgium was a tad cheaper.  Had rented a 4 door Toyota Yaris Hybrid that was getting 60 mpg (4l/100km) combined city and highway driving.  Must have a small tank because a fill up at less than a quarter tank to full took 24 litres.

[JamesL]

Just returned from Germany and 10% ethanol gas was running 1.98 to 2.08 Euros per litre.  Belgium was a tad cheaper.  Had rented a 4 door Toyota Yaris Hybrid that was getting 60 mpg (4l/100km) combined city and highway driving.  Must have a small tank because a fill up at less than a quarter tank to full took 24 litres.

€2 is (currently) $2.10 = $7.90 a gallon (US)

[AdelaidePagoda]

Premium 98 petrol in Australia now is USD $6.30 a gallon which is an all time high. AUD$2.35/ litre. We have lower priced (octane) fuels although happy paying extra for perceived peace of mind.  Happy to have a small tank 230SL, helps spread the pain 😀

[Alex D]

At $4.77 per gallon to fill up from a complete empty 21 gallon (80 liter) tank will cost you $100 USD.   

[MikeSimon]

I use ethanol free gas in all my "vintage" (sorry Dan!) vehicles. The presence of alcohol in conatct with some plastic fuel conveyance parts as well as the affinity for water bugs me and I try to avoid it. Ethanol free gas has always been more expensive than a "few cents" (more like close to a dollar), but as I am not driving these vehicles a lot, I can make do.
I used regular 10% ethanol high octane fuel in my Corvette ZR1 for the first 20 years of ownership and paid the price for having the fuel injectors replaced.

[Benz Dr.]

I hear this anti ethanol talk quite a bit but I don't buy into much of it. We still use some gasoline powered tractors and they all use regular unleaded with 10% ethanol. That's all they've ever used since it was changed over and I've seen zero problems. Sometimes I have to use regular out of my tank at home and my car will ping a bit but I've seen no other ill effects. I don't use stay-bill over the winter and my car always fires right up in the spring.

Regular is about 7.50 - 8.00 a US gallon here right now. When there is no gas available, or I have no money to buy it, then it will become a problem. I plan on using my car on a regular basis this summer because it gets over 50% better mileage than my pick up truck. The day I can no longer afford to put gas in my car is the day I longer need it.

[Norm]

I have a choice between 10% ethanol 93 Octane and non-ethanol 90 Octane.  Price difference is minimal. 

I normally use a gasoline additive that stabilizes my fuel and adds a few octane points with the 10% ethanol 93 Octane and have not had any issues with performance.

https://www.liquidperformance.com/products/ethanol-equalizer

I'm thinking "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" (using the 10% ethanol fuel) 

Any thoughts on which I should choose?

Norm

[mdsalemi]

…I used regular 10% ethanol high octane fuel in my Corvette ZR1 for the first 20 years of ownership and paid the price for having the fuel injectors replaced.

So, if no ethanol fuel is recommended by GM for your ZR-1, and you used E10 for 20 years, I’d say those are mighty robust fuel injectors. If that’s your only issue—after 20 years—you’re probably doing OK. Nothing lasts forever.

In all the years I had boats, always used regular E10. Never any issues but then again usage was light and the season short…

One of the local classic restoration shops always used Avgas on the trailer queen classics until they wouldn’t sell it except directly into a plane.

[MikeSimon]

Mike, I don't know if GM ever recommended non-ethanol fuel for the ZR1. Maybe in 1990 the issue wasn't one. The negative effect of the alcohol on plastics and composites in the fuel system came out after a few years of use. I know owners with C4 Corvettes older than mine and they still have the original fuel injectors. The problem with water in the tank with ethanol fuel is a fact. I also heard stories of clogged up fuel filters. I had a plastic fuel elbow on my BMW K1600 come apart. BMW has a recall out for over a year now and cannot provide parts.
Those who had no problem with E-10 or E-15 were just plain lucky, IMO. Denying the problem is short sighted.
Enzyme additives help but you cannot take that stuff and add it to every fill-up. I do not know of any marine/boat filling station that sells ethanol gas.

[Peter van Es]

Yesterday I got caught off guard with the fuel guage showing almost completely empty, I go fill up the tank, and almost fell over, $92 to fill up the with 93 non ethanol, not sure going to any 90+premium octans would have been any better.

Here in Europe we have been paying prices like these for years... and we still drive to the European Event and back, some 2500-3000 km's for most of us. In most countries 95 octane fuel is E10 (i.e.a 10% Ethanol), and 98 octane is E5 (5% Ethanol). I also add Ethanol killer and usually buy 98 Octane. Which costs around € 2.40 per liter. A tank is 60 liters or so, i.e. € 144. At todays exchange rate around US$ 151. Given my car does around 1 : 8 (8 km/liter) when driving on motorways, this gives me a range of 462kms. So a complete European Event would cost about 7 tanks of fuel, i.e. $ 1057. And no, it won't stop us...

Peter

[Alex D]

Early 230's had a 60 liter tank, then went to 80 liter tank, not sure when the exact change occurred. 

[Benz Dr.]

Early 230's had a 60 liter tank, then went to 80 liter tank, not sure when the exact change occurred.

250SL from what I remember.

[Peter van Es]

Early 230's had a 60 liter tank, then went to 80 liter tank, not sure when the exact change occurred.

Yeah, but like you I never fully empty it. Most of my refills are at 60 liters.

[JamesL]

Mine are at 40l as my gauge shows nearly empty when I’ve burned through a bit over 40l !

[mdsalemi]

If the petrol you put in your tank is going to be used imminently, such as just one of the fuel fills you'll need for a drive, then putting non-ethanol fuel in is probably just wasteful. The fuel shortly to be used doesn't have enough time to absorb water of appreciable or damaging quantity.

If you are NOT going to use that fuel, and the car sits or is stored, then that is a different matter up to you. While some call it "good luck" I think losing one fuel pump hose after about 15 years isn't too bad. There's a large number of members here using only the fuel commonly available to them, and that's most likely E10. Many have had no issues over many years. This fuel hose was my only issue, and there's no saying that the leak at the crimp was caused by ethanol or its consequences. Leaks happen. Things don't last forever.

[Kevkeller]

I started adding stabilizer to my fuel and shortly after the impeller in my fuel pump turned to a gray sludge.  I’d never seen anything like it in the previous 20 years. I did write about it here somewhere and Bob Youngman had said it would happen when the moisture in the fuel reached a certain percentage window.
I’ll never add it again.

[Mike Hughes]

Ethanol laced fuel also eats away at the casting material commonly used in most carburetor, fuel pump and sending unit castings from the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's.  Once the surfaces soaked with ethanol fuel start to disintegrate those fuel system components are junk.  Worse still, since the grit in the dissolving carbs is usually upstream of a fuel filter, any grit that makes its way through the jets does a job on rings and cylinder walls. 

This is not theory - I've seen these results with my own eyes on my own cars.  I started using ethanol-free fuel in all my collector cars on the advice of my farming neighbors who only put ethanol-free fuel in their farm equipment. Fortunately, I can find 87 octane at stations in our farming community and 87 and 93 at stations not too far away.  Since making the switch I haven't had to pull a single carb on any of my vehicles to clean clogged jets (the first sign that ethanol is eating away at the insides of a carb).

[Benz Dr.]

Ethanol laced fuel also eats away at the casting material commonly used in most carburetor, fuel pump and sending unit castings from the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's.  Once the surfaces soaked with ethanol fuel start to disintegrate those fuel system components are junk.  Worse still, since the grit in the dissolving carbs is usually upstream of a fuel filter, any grit that makes its way through the jets does a job on rings and cylinder walls. 

This is not theory - I've seen these results with my own eyes on my own cars.  I started using ethanol-free fuel in all my collector cars on the advice of my farming neighbors who only put ethanol-free fuel in their farm equipment. Fortunately, I can find 87 octane at stations in our farming community and 87 and 93 at stations not too far away.  Since making the switch I haven't had to pull a single carb on any of my vehicles to clean clogged jets (the first sign that ethanol is eating away at the insides of a carb).

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm asking why I haven't seen those problems myself. Is there a different grade of 87 octane used in Canada? I don't know the answers to those questions.

[Mike Hughes]

I saved the low fuel sending unit I had to replace on my 1954 M.G. TF last spring.  It was NOS in the box when I installed it when I acquired the car in 1984. This means that it has spent most of its life immersed in ethanol fuel.  The sender stopped working four or five years ago and I finally got around to removing the tank and replacing the sending unit last spring and saved it to show my M.G. club friends.  I've been rearranging the garage this month and put the old eroded one in a "safe place" while moving things around.  As soon as I find it I'll take a photo and post it.  The damage is amazing.

[Mike Hughes]

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm asking why I haven't seen those problems myself. Is there a different grade of 87 octane used in Canada? I don't know the answers to those questions.

Neither do I.  The farming community up in the mountains of Highland County, Virginia consists of small family-owned cattle and sheep farms that have mostly been in the family for generations.  The farm next door to me was in the same family from the 1730's until it was sold after the death of the last surviving male heir a couple of years ago. Most of my neighbors are operating equipment that their daddy or granddaddy bought decades ago.  They don't need new as long as they can keep the old stuff running so they have a pretty good handle on how to maintain old equipment and what to avoid doing as well.  Some have bought new equipment only to discover it didn't perform as well as their old stuff and got rid of it.  You're a farmer, Dan, so you can probably understand more than most what I am talking about.  Most newer (relatively speaking) equipment is diesel powered, but there are still a lot of old gasoline powered tractors around, and those guys uniformly swear by ethanol-free fuel.  There are only four gas stations in the whole county and two of them sell ethanol-free gas.  Only one sells diesel!