Electric Conversion

[Jonny B]

Wonder what kind of range it has?? Living room to garage and back??

[Colingo]

Jokes aside, the next thing to work out for my 64 230 conversion, is the weight of everything that comes out, the engine, gearbox, manifolds, exhaust, radiator, alternator, injector pump, petrol tank and all fluids. I'll be keeping the prop-shaft and diff. I need these weights to calculate the battery weight I can add back without changing the handling and suspension. Does anyone know any of these numbers, or point me in the right direction to find them?

[GM]

EV4U did a 1964 230SL conversions - here's the summary of the before and after summary, which includes weights, etc.
Starts at about 4:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGuYMYk0xd8&list=PLj1NdhlC39Vm6lWLoFZGn2xkFcqAwm-kZ&index=15

[Colingo]

Hi

Trouble with that conversion is that he's starting out with a V8.

[Colingo]

Conversion Update

I've done quite a bit of research since my last post. I've spoken to numerous companies about batteries, motors, inverters and gearboxes (all required for the conversion). A lot of the components available are unfortunately from China. I'm trying to stick with UK/US options although the batteries I'm going to use will probably be LG from Poland. There are multiple choices on motors, but not many on gearboxes which contrary to widely held opinions are needed for electric cars. One option might have been to stick with a manual gearbox and use that, but I bought an automatic! Most motors run between 12,000 to 20,000 rpm. For a maximum speed of 100mph (more than enough for me) the final drive ratio needs to be between 8→15:1 to optimise the available performance of the motor. The diff ratio is obviously part of this. Anyway, I've got a lot of this stuff and can share it with anyone who's interested.
As far as conversion companies are concerned I've decided upon a UK company called Electrogenic who are not very far from me in Oxfordshire. I did also come across a US company called Moment Motors in Texas who've been very helpful and are actually doing a run of converted Pagodas.
A significant portion of the conversion process is learning the idiosyncrasies of the particular car and this comes with a cost. Sharing the cost with more than one car has advantages. So, anyone else out there in the UK fancy converting their Pagoda?

[AdelaidePagoda]

Delighted to hear that you continue to learn, and share, with us that are interested in EV conversions. It is great to vicariously be along for the journey and I look forward to hearing more updates as you progress down this path.
I have a Tesla so know the benefits of EV, although would want to make sure your Pagoda conversion is plug and play for the next battery etc. as that car will be around a lot longer than a Tesla.

[Colingo]

Dave

I think you have to own an EV to appreciate the potential benefits of a conversion. I own an i-Pace which suits me for my regular London commute. I look forward to doing similar trips in my Merc.

I am concerned with future proofing the conversion. A lot of conversions use low voltages 100→200V which are only compatible with slow charge rates. At the other extreme are 800→900V systems that charge at up to 250kW, but the systems and the chargers aren't readily available. A 900V inverter is also very expensive ~ £15,000.  I'm opting for a 400V system that allows charging at 50kW. I'm planning a 62kWh battery, so as you can imagine, there's not too much waiting around to get significant charge although probably not as good as your Tesla.

On a more fun aspect, I've been looking at potential performance. A 280 will put out 240Nm maximum and in 1st gear there is a 4:1 ratio, so the diff sees 960Nm for the brief moment revs go through 4,000. My conversion will offer close to this (800-900Nm) from zero to 50mph - should be fun without breaking the diff.

[AdelaidePagoda]

Wow! Please keep me up to date as this is a brave, expensive and exciting ride that you are taking us all on. You are very wise looking into all the future proofing issues. This landscape is changing fast and you do not want to invest $$$$ and find out it is obsolete technology in a few years and have to start again. The future will show that EV conversion companies will rapidly expand for those with the funds to mix sentimentality with the future of electric drive trains.

There will always be petrol cars in our lifetimes, particularly classics, although as we are seeing from all car manufacturers, EV demand is increasing and is where they see their growth. In summary, I respect my Tesla, but love my Pagoda.

[MikeSimon]

I just posted this in a different thread about a similar subject.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a41463763/everyone-has-the-wrong-idea-about-ev-converted-classic-cars/

[Colingo]

Hi Mike

I agree with the sentiment of that article. I wouldn't convert a Ferrari V8/V12, but I believe a humble 2.3 straight 6 in a beautiful car is ripe for conversion.

[AdelaidePagoda]

Agreed, probably best done on a donor car (any model) with a non-original motor, gearbox etc. Keep the matching number sets together for future generations and improve/ experiment on those that have lost their investment lustre.

[ejboyd5]

Both you and your murse will regret any such conversion. If you must have an electric vehicle, purchase one already completed and spare a Pagoda for those who appreciate it as is.

[MikeSimon]

Both you and your murse will regret any such conversion. If you must have an electric vehicle, purchase one already completed and spare a Pagoda for those who appreciate it as is.

Well said! I am always amazed how many people out there think they are able to "re-engineer" a vintage or classic vehicle and come up with a better result than the original designers. This doesn't apply to electrification only, of course.

[AdelaidePagoda]

For the avoidance of any doubt, my comments do not advocate or fully endorse a conversion to electric in a good condition matching numbers Pagoda, as I too am a purist. However we live in a world where change in automotive technology is advancing (batteries) and the cost and availability of repairs to their older original petrol engines and fuel pumps is almost uneconomical or unviable. In addition some Pagoda’s, for one reason or another, have reached the point of no economic return and sadly will be lost to the community.
Now if there is someone with deep pockets is willing to invest in bringing it back to automotive life and provide an externally eye pleasing Pagoda, with the benefits of zero emissions, then I think we could all see some small benefit in that rather than lose it forever.
100% agreed, you cannot improve on the original. #bracq

[GM]

Want an electric conversion? Be prepared to pay big money
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/the-hack-mechanic/want-an-electric-conversion-be-prepared-to-pay-big-money/
Also discusses the practicalities of a conversion

[mdsalemi]

In the current issue (#41, Winter 2022) that just arrived of Classic Mercedes magazine, page 7, there’s a short mention of “Watt a W113”…

UK Mercedes restorer Hilton & Moss has completed one with Everrati Automotive doing the electrified power train.

Priced around £300,000.

NOT a one-off; they are happy to take your bespoke order.

[Benz Dr.]

For the avoidance of any doubt, my comments do not advocate or fully endorse a conversion to electric in a good condition matching numbers Pagoda, as I too am a purist. However we live in a world where change in automotive technology is advancing (batteries) and the cost and availability of repairs to their older original petrol engines and fuel pumps is almost uneconomical or unviable. In addition some Pagoda’s, for one reason or another, have reached the point of no economic return and sadly will be lost to the community.
Now if there is someone with deep pockets is willing to invest in bringing it back to automotive life and provide an externally eye pleasing Pagoda, with the benefits of zero emissions, then I think we could all see some small benefit in that rather than lose it forever.
100% agreed, you cannot improve on the original. #bracq

What's with this matching numbers stuff?  In a Hemi 'Cuda it makes a difference, but our cars?

[BobH]

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/everrati-mercedes-benz-sl-pagoda/

£ 400K plus a donor car, just a crazy price to me, but i expect there's plenty who'll pay it

[mdsalemi]

And in other “shocking” news, Everrati https://everrati.com/ is now offering “a new package to help customers meet the £300,000+ cost. Through Charles & Dean Finance, they can sign up for lease purchase, allowing much reduced monthly payments, with a final ‘balloon’ payment at the end of the contract.”

https://www.charlesanddean.com/

PS: Queue forms on the left. 😉

[mdsalemi]

https://www.electricmotornews.com/gb/veicoli-ecologici/everrati-hemmels-mercedes-pagoda-elettrica/

The Hemmels/Everrati conversion was on display somewhere at Pebble Beach. A photo is on page D1 of the weekend edition of the WSJ, but author (and honorary judge) Dan Neil makes no other reference to it in the article.