Author Topic: This is amazing (Read 6251 times)

JamesL · « **on:** September 20, 2022, 16:37:32 »

It's a 230, up for auction, and is shiny...
Then look at the pdf from Hemmels, and you realise someone has handed over a fortune for a resto of the car and ended up with some body panels and chrome... thus the litigation folk are/were involved

https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2022-09-24/cars/ref-161-1966-mercedes-benz-230-sl-jg/

Colingo · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2022, 17:19:42 »

Hi James

Yes I saw the Hemmels report - perhaps someone will buy it for bits!

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2022, 19:45:53 »

No doubt that the restoration is indeed poor, but I don't really rate the quality of Hemmel's report either.
Eg: what does "rear brakes not connected to the servo" mean? (servo is Booster to those of you on the other side of the pond).

lreppond · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2022, 20:35:23 »

I agree with Colin. Hemmels does not exactly have the shiny reputation it purports to have. Horror stories abound and their hubris in advertising they produce cars better than when the rolled off the assembly is suspect.

I guess the bottom line on this car is buyer beware.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2022, 21:54:32 »

Quote from: lreppond on September 20, 2022, 20:35:23

I agree with Colin. Hemmels does not exactly have the shiny reputation it purports to have. Horror stories abound and their hubris in advertising they produce cars better than when the rolled off the assembly is suspect.

I guess the bottom line on this car is buyer beware.

Interesting observations, all. Be reminded that the inspection was NON INVASIVE, meaning no screw was turned, nothing was adjusted. Visual observation only, pretty much like the standard of practice for residential home inspections in the USA. A more thorough inspection would cost a small fortune, and to what or whose standard? What would you take apart? There was a test drive, but it proved to be too dangerous. Don't think Hemmels would have dared take it on the M4.

It's already turned into a Hemmel's Pile on, but be reminded that the work was done to the tune of £200,000 by a "Hampshire based restorer" and that should be identified.

So, our British friends: who in Hampshire is big and well known enough to convince someone to part with such a sum of money for such lousy work?

I'll agree completely that the report format and writing is a bit disjointed but don't let that detract from the photos and conclusions. Yes, the same raw data could be better organized and perhaps written a bit better without so much duplication etc. But, they (Hemmels) are not in the business of report writing...

ScouseJames · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2022, 11:16:49 »

A more suitable word may be “criminal” but how did the owner let it get to this stage?
Surely when spending any amount of money you would keep an eye on things? And they must have agreed to that engine being used etc.

Don’t know any restorers in Hampshire myself.

BobH · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2022, 15:15:42 »

Department of Transport MOT rules state that historic vehicles are exempt from requiring an MOT, unless:

"Eligibility
You do not need to get an MOT if the vehicle was first registered more than 40 years ago and no ‘substantial changes’ have been made to the vehicle in the last 30 years."

This car has definitely undergone substantial changes and should have been sold with a current MOT certificate, if it has got a certificate, then it's clearly dodgy, if not then the buyer should at least have known the requirement before he parted with a small fortune

i can't see any "reputable" garage or restorer doing such poor and potentially dangerous work, if they did they'd be out of business in no time

Just checked the MOT status on line, the car is currently declared as SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification), so can't be driven on a public road without a valid MOT certificate, required due to the changes made from original spec, so shouldn't have been sold without one

JamesL · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2022, 16:05:11 »

I wonder if this all blew up when the owner went for an MOT and was told it failed the IVA test (altered vehicles)

" The “8 points” system is how they determine whether a car should retain its original registration. First they assign each major part of the car a set point score like this.

• chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points

• suspension = 2 points

• axles = 2 points

• transmission = 2 points

• steering assembly = 2 points

• engine = 1 point

To retain it’s original registration, the vehicle must score 8 or more points from this list. However this must always include the 5 points for the original UNMODIFIED monocoque shell/chassis."

Cutting transmission tunnel is likely to run foul of the 5 points on the monocoque, and it loses 3 on transmission/engine. So the trick for those modding vehicles is don't cut the monocoque... (adding to it, eg to beef up suspension mounts is, I gather, a grey area).

john.mancini · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2022, 17:18:46 »

In today's world, once you hand over your car to a restorer, you are at their mercy. At every turn, problems arise requiring more spending. The bills pile up and now you are caught in a money trap. You have to keep spending just to hopefully get your car back some day. That's why I always recommend staying away from project cars that have been rusted badly or damaged from moderate to severe car accidents. Twenty years ago we all would have had no problem restoring a damaged car. But today, for most, it's a whole new ballgame. Parts prices are very high. Finding a qualified mechanic, painter, body man, who knows MB cars, is getting near impossible. I'm sure the owner of this car was between a rock and a hard place.

JamesL · « **Reply #9 on:** September 24, 2022, 19:01:04 »

Sold for….
£55,000

lreppond · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2022, 20:01:06 »

Holy moly…£55k is close to $60k! I know that this model sells for more in GB than in the States but that price seems incredibly high considering it’s current set of issues. Am I overlooking something?

BobH · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24, 2022, 21:38:00 »

These cars were in the same auction today, the two Pagodas sold, but the 190 couldn't have made its reserve

Ref 10 1968 Mercedes-Benz 280 SL JG (historics.co.uk)

Ref 56 1969 Mercedes-Benz 280 SL ‘Pagoda’ JT (historics.co.uk)

Ref 90 1955 Mercedes-Benz 190 SL SB (historics.co.uk)

If the links don't work, you may need to copy and paste them into your browser

DaveB · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2022, 21:52:11 »

The original engine is included so maybe the buyer will rebuild and install that and onsell it.
But yes, seems expensive, depending on the standard of the rest of the car..which is difficult to tell from the photos but the boot (trunk) gap is uneven for a start.

BobH · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2022, 22:48:41 »

Seems to me that they paid £ 55K for a box of spares!

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2022, 04:56:12 »

It's a left hand drive to boot, which is normally less valuable than a RHD in the UK. So definitely this does not validate Hemmels' valuation of between £10-15K.

Paul & Dolly · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2022, 06:57:34 »

The RHD 280 SL went for £140K and the LHD 280 SL for £106K so it made half of what a normal Pagoda would expect to be made.

Paul

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2022, 10:28:45 »

There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes...........

AdelaidePagoda · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2022, 11:13:31 »

Very well said! You always get, what you don’t pay for.

Shvegel · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2022, 02:19:01 »

My gut says Hemmels was trying to buy it so they could sell it to someone for a restoration. If the owner walked away at 15 they could have sold it to a customer for 30 and had a fat restoration to boot.

Paul & Dolly · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2022, 08:45:52 »

Shevegal, I suspect that they really didn't want to get too involved, I know they are very busy right now , and already have a store of Pagodas in Gloucestershire, ready for renovation for any potential customers.

At the same auction this Jaguar Etype went for £60K...

https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2022-09-24/cars/ref-89-1961-jaguar-e-type-series-i-roadster-flat-floor-sb/

Keep safe

Paul

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2022, 12:07:56 »

Did I miss something, did the UK do a 5-for-1 split on the GBP??

Leester · « **Reply #21 on:** September 26, 2022, 13:51:50 »

I realize its a flat floor but egads!

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2022, 15:59:20 »

I've had the opportunity to examine this car and it's a proper paradox. There are elements I was impressed with, others I was horrified by.
It's easy to see where the money went, less easy to know why.
It's nowhere near as bad as Hemmel's report would suggest but it is bad enough to make a purist want to vomit.
It's had an M110 engine fitted which certainly gives more power.
It's had a remote servo (booster) installed which has not been successful.
Overall I would describe it as an interesting unfinished project.
I can imagine a situation where whoever "restored" it was doing so in accordance with the customer's instructions until the customer called time on the resultant spend.
I suspect somebody will be happy with it eventually.....

kiloMikl · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2022, 16:47:08 »

This convertible does look really cool

Colingo · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2022, 21:07:57 »

Car is on sale again in Car and Classic. I wonder what it will go for this time?

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Author Topic: This is amazing (Read 6251 times)

kiloMikl