VIN Number Plate

[A65006500]

I am new to the forum and have been searching for some time to buy a Pagoda as my first classic car and thought best to seek advice on this forum. I have seen one that I wish to purchase and have some queries that some of you may be able to help with.

1. If the car has no VIN Tag is it hard to get a replacement. It seems to have been removed at some stage and the owner has never had it. The seller seems very genuine (he has had the car for a very long time) but I wondered if this devalues the car or can I just get a replacement.

2. I am trying to decode the Data Plate and wondered which part of it designates what colour the car was from the factory

3. How can I confirm that the chasis number on the log book is the same as the car if there is no Vin plate

4. Where do I find the number on the engine block for the engine as there is a engine number on the V5 (DVLA UK driving authorities) book.

5. Can I easily get a data book replacement as that is also missing.

Many thanks to anyone that can help.

[lreppond]

First off, join this organization. The tech manual (only available to those with full membership) will answer many of your questions.  It’s a wise $30/yr if you’re thinking about acquiring a w113. 

1. Replacement VIN plates are available.

2. The data plate will have two numbers on the 2nd line.  These numbers are followed by either G or H  (Glasurit & Herberts were paint manufacturers). You can look these numbers up on the web for the specific color).

3.  I’m not 100% certain on this but I believe there a VIN number engraved in the engine bay.  Since I’m unclear if yours is a RHD or LHD car, I’m not certain where it is embossed.  For that matter, I stand corrected if I’m wrong on this.

4. Engine block number is below the casting lettering on the valve cover.  It’s close to the end of the engine block nearest the transmission  Again, this is pictured in the tech manual.

5. Contact the classic center for Mercedes and they will sell you a replacement data card with the original build features of your car.  I believe it’s around $150 USD.

GOOD LUCK!  There is a plethora of great information on this site as well as knowledge owners who will to share info.  Avail yourself by joining.

[A65006500]

Hi Len

Thank you so much for being so helpful. I have been doing lots of research and I will go back to look at the car. My only concerns are that unless I find another location for the chasis number I won’t be able to verify that it’s the same number as what’s on the vehicle documentation.

The car is a RHD. The vehicle documentation registered here with the DVLA starts with 113043-33 and then 00 and 4 numbers. I can’t see a VIN plate on the car. Everywhere I have been reading states that the chasis number should have a 11343 followed by “2” for RHD and “2”for automatic. The data plate on the car has this but of course that’s not the chasis number and I can’t see a chasis number on the car until I go back to look at it with the guidance you have given to look for it edged into the frame. In any case, My question really is, is it normal for it to have a chasis number that starts 11343-33?

I may have to wait until Monday to get in touch with a Mercedes centre but just wanted to get some thoughts on it.

2. The code I have found is 180 G. I have seen some guidance on the net that it should have a DB in front of it which this doesn’t.

3. Lastly are all data plate formats the same ?

4. Finally now that you know that it’s a right hand drive do you have a photo of where exactly to look for the edged chassis number

Really appreciate your help and excited to hopefully purchase my dream pagoda soon

[ejboyd5]

Have the seller show you where the VIN appears on the car.  If he can't, it may lead to an interesting conversation.

[A65006500]

I will do. In fairness I didn’t ask when I first viewed the car I asked where the plate was as it was clearly missing but I wasn’t aware that it may also edged be on the frame.

The registration documents shows that he has owned it for more than 20 years so I am confident he is a genuine seller it just would put my mind at ease if I can find the chassis recorded on the car elsewhere.

[BobH]

Hello, until you become a full member and have access to the technical manual, have a look on line, there is plenty of information and videos to be found

The VIN plate details and location can be found on this link, i think the location of the number depends on the age of the car.  The same company also has details of the paint code plate on their website

https://palmbeachclassics.com/vehicle-identification-number-vin/#:~:text=The%2014-digit%20VIN%20consists%20of%20the%20following%20elements%3A,case%20the%20%E2%80%9CPagoda%E2%80%9D-SL%20produced%20from%201963%20to%201971.

https://palmbeachclassics.com/body-and-paint-number-plate/#:~:text=If%20a%20W113%20was%20delivered%20without%20the%20optional,softtop%20folded%29.%20The%20possible%20codes%20are%20as%20follows%3A

Also a link to a buyers guide.  I think the VIN you mention indicates a 250SL, which was only made for around a year in 1967, before the 280SL was released, does this sound correct to you based on the V5?

https://motoringinvestments.com/mercedes-280sl-w113-buyers-guide/

It's easy to get hung up on the originality of a car, you'll probably see differences on the car you're looking at, to others on this site and on the guide above, to the point where you just get overwhelmed.  I guess you need to decide whether you want a car to use, to show, or as an investment, as this will affect the price and how long it takes to find the right car, if you ever do

The other problem is there are not that many cars you can compare, the SL shop probably has the largest selection in the UK, but it may not seem right to look at cars you don't intend to buy, unless you ask them first and explain your position

Unfortunately you missed a gathering in London today, which would have been really useful for you to see a selection of cars, the owners would be only too pleased to help and advise you.  There are regular meets in the UK and across the world, if you click on "events" in the main page index, you'll see some from the past and maybe some planned for the future

I'm guessing the car you're interested in isn't cheap, no decent Pagoda is, so the last thing you want to do is rush in without considering all of the options

I'm in Essex and would happily show you around my car if it helps, although i'm no expert, i have picked up a mountain of information on this site and through googling other cars

[A65006500]

Bob

That’s really helpful thanks. A real shame I missed today’s gathering.

1. Yes the log book has a date of Oct 1967
 
2. I don’t want to look at it as an investment as it’s important to buy what you like and I am guided by that. The only reservation I have is that I want to be sure about the provenance of the car and not end up buying something that has issues.

3. I appreciate the article you sent through but the photo of where the engraved chassis number may be seemed a little vague.

[lreppond]

If BobH is willing to give you some insights, by all means avail yourself of that opportunity.  He’s active with these cars and from all I’ve been able to gather very knowledgeable.  That is the beauty of being a member here!

If you’re looking at a 250SL it’s VIN should be 113.043.20 if RHD manual or .22 if a RHD automatic.  After that there is another sequence of six numbers that are unique to the specific car.  If the car has a proper 250SL engine, the block stamp should read 129.982 followed by 20 or 22 as above followed by specific numbers unique to engine. The only way you can know if it’s numbers match is by the data card which contains the original engine number.  The 180G is silver grey metallic paint. It was a very popular color for many Mercedes of the period. Typically, it came with either black, blue, red or  cognac
interiors but other interior colors could be had as well. 

On YouTube there is a series of videos by Bob of Cascadia (Portland, OR) called the Pagoda buyers guide that you should definitely watch before going back to see the car.  You’ll have a much better understanding of what to look for and what to ask. 

You’re definitely on the right track and I hope you find at least some of this helpful in your quest for a nice Pagoda.

[A65006500]

I guess the odd question that I have which other members here may be able to answer is does anyone have a chassis number that starts with the model 113.043 and then 33 rather than 20, 22 or any other number.

This car should have 113.04.22 as it’s RHD and AUTO. I am unclear why there is a ‘33’. This is from the official government ID docs what is called the DVLA V5. The seller does not have a data book.

I am going to check to see if I can find the edged chassis number on the frame to see what that reads but as explained there is no VIN plate on this car as it has been removed.

Interestingly the data plate on the car does state 113.04.22 with the car options and colour

[JamesL]

Maybe Swansea made a mistake/ were misinformed. Maybe easy to transpose a 2 and a 3 from what was likely a handwritten document.


113043 is the designation for a 250. 113042 would be a 230 (production stopped early 67). 280s started in November. 22 is RHD Auto regardless of model.

Find (take a torch, cloth and some wd40) the chassis rail stamp, get your phone stuck down there and snap away. Post it here.

[A65006500]

Hi James

I’m am off to see the car today and will try to look for the stamp. Do you have any pics of the approximate area if should be located in. A pic too close won’t help me see where to look. I can then try and see if I can see it on the car.

From what I have been reading it will be very odd if it was to be “33” from the factory as even the data plate on the car has “22”. The “33” would have to be an error with the DVLA and I am sure getting that amended would be a nightmare and it makes me ask why the seller did not spot this when he was providing the chassis to order parts etc.

In any event the V5 log book has “33”. The seller seems very genuine and everything else stacks up with him and the car.

What would the members advise me to do. Walk away from the car or would it still be worth purchasing? Of course, I will have a better picture once I try to find the edged stamp on the frame.

With such old cars how important is the chassis marrying up with the V5 and is there anyway I can check the chassis with Mercedes ? Do I get in touch with classic Mercedes or any dealer?

[lreppond]

Having a LHD, I’m not certain where the RHD cars had their VIN stamped in the engine bay.  Mine is on the passenger side under the air intake. It’s looks like before painting, it was masked off since no paint is there.  The photos I’ve attached aren’t the best but hopefully they’ll help.

About a year ago, I remember reading about a DMV error here in the States where the numbers were transposed or somehow incorrect. I’ve never heard of a 33 in the position you’ve mentioned and I’m assuming it was a mis-type of some kind.  Mistakes do happen.

[JamesL]

I wonder if he learned any more...

[A65006500]

Hi James

I just got back from buying the car. So, the chassis number does start with a 22 on the frame which gives me comfort. I guess the DVLA wrongly had it recorded as 33. I called them this morning and they explained mistakes do exist and they will amend it after an inspection.

I just drove it back from where I bought it and so far so good. There is a whirling noise coming from the Speedo when it does above certain speedo and the Speedo is jumping up and down but I will get that looked at soon unless some of the members have an idea of what it could be.

[BobH]

Having a LHD, I’m not certain where the RHD cars had their VIN stamped in the engine bay.  Mine is on the passenger side under the air intake. It’s looks like before painting, it was masked off since no paint is there.  The photos I’ve attached aren’t the best but hopefully they’ll help.

About a year ago, I remember reading about a DMV error here in the States where the numbers were transposed or somehow incorrect. I’ve never heard of a 33 in the position you’ve mentioned and I’m assuming it was a mis-type of some kind.  Mistakes do happen.

Just for future reference, it appears the chassis number is exactly where Len shows it on both LH and RH cars

[lreppond]

I’m not a petrol head, so take my words with a grain of salt.  But I would guess that whirling noise at certain speeds is somehow related to the connecting cable malfunctioning?  It seems like I’ve read about others who experienced the same phenomenon.   

Good to hear that you bought it and I’m hoping it turns out to be a very enjoyable experience for you.  Just remember, it’s 55 years old and reliability can be an issue until you have everything sorted out. 

[BobH]

Hello Amir, there's lots written about speedo problems in the technical manual, if you intend to have a bash yourself it's an underneath the car job, so the car will need to be lifted, there's plenty of advice in the manual

If you don't fancy working on the car yourself, then perhaps drive the car for a while and see if there are any other issues, and then take the car to a specialist.  Colin Fern isn't far from you, he's only in Richmond, maybe get the car serviced and the oil changed if it hasn't run very far for a while.  This will give you peace of mind. Let us know how you get on

https://www.colinferns.com/

[JamesL]

Congrats
We’ll need pictures, obvs…
And do join as a full member as you’ll learn loads, even if you end up having someone do all the actual work on the car.
And everyone here is happy to help. Hearts are in the right places, even if some things might come across to you as criticism of your car or choices: a pagoda being enjoyed, cherished and driven is a shared goal