Author Topic: fuel pump leaking  (Read 4272 times)

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
fuel pump leaking
« on: October 04, 2022, 12:27:33 »
well looks like the fuel pump on my 230 sl is leaking at the wire connections,  all hose clamps are snug.

after reading several posts and searching the tech section the leak is not uncommon.

now to come up with a plan on how to repair or replace with a rebuilt.

Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2022, 15:08:55 »
talked to  vintage euro and ordered the rebuild kit from them  for $65 bucks

https://vintageeuroparts.com/short-style-fuel-pump-repair-rebuild-kit-280-se-sl-bosch-mercedes-w108-w111-w113.html

they also have a video showing the rebuild
https://youtu.be/PkC8WQd3_H4

another project to add to the list!
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

ejboyd5

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • Southold, NY
  • Posts: 510
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2022, 16:37:58 »
You might want to try Loctite 290 green wicking sealant.

Pinder

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NJ, Edison
  • Posts: 1031
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2022, 21:00:13 »
I used the same kit to rebuild mine. They also have a more complete kit with a new impeller and armature if yours are too far gone.

make sure your mating surfaces on your bottom plate are flat so it seals well. you can wet sand it using fine wet and dry paper to get it totally flat.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2022, 12:28:20 »
hi
thanks for the replies and advice,

pulled the pump yesterday, now waiting on the kit.

for sure its leaking from either the terminals or the top cover o ring.    the pump is dry above the top cover o ring area.

Question,  is there a consensus on lubricating the o rings,   after using the search function and reading about 8 posts on rebuilding the pumps it seem that a little motor oil is the recommendation?

thanks in advance



« Last Edit: October 05, 2022, 13:18:33 by merrill »
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4634
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2022, 20:14:34 »
talked to vintage euro and ordered the rebuild kit from them for $65 bucks
You are not a patient man.  Less than 3 hours between "I need a plan" and "I bought a rebuild kit". :)
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2022, 21:20:33 »
Rodd
lol, that's the benefit of this group,  by the it didn't take long for me to research the issue and read posts on how to repair and make a decision. :)
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

Charles 230SL

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, GA, Griffin
  • Posts: 665
  • 64 230SL
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2022, 00:08:03 »
Question,  is there a consensus on lubricating the o rings,   after using the search function and reading about 8 posts on rebuilding the pumps it seem that a little motor oil is the recommendation?...
Yes, definitely put a light coat of motor oil on the seals. Kent Bergsma (MercedesSource.com) has a great video about replacing seals in a short pump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3l0vI7UwGA. Fast forward to time 9:30 in the video.

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2022, 11:24:31 »
thanks Charles 230sl!
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

Pinder

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NJ, Edison
  • Posts: 1031
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2022, 12:36:01 »
be careful with the screws when you open it up let the soak in some penetrant oil
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4634
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2022, 14:17:05 »
... a great video about replacing seals in a short pump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3l0vI7UwGA. Fast forward to time 9:30 in the video.
Charles,
When you share a link, you can do that fast forward yourself by adding a time suffix to the link, "&t=9m30s" in this case.  So, it would be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3l0vI7UwGA&t=9m30s
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

Charles 230SL

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, GA, Griffin
  • Posts: 665
  • 64 230SL
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2022, 15:39:44 »
thanks Rodd, I didn't know that. I'll add a time suffix next time.
Good info,, thanks again.

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2022, 20:31:51 »
received the kit from vintage euro today, so decided to get started on dis assembly of the pump

the impeller and cover are clean!

brushes are worn (picture)

need to pull the armature from the top and clean the inside of the top.

outer o rings appear shrunken and dry. wont mess with those until re assembly
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

Pinder

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NJ, Edison
  • Posts: 1031
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2022, 10:30:11 »
looks like its in pretty good shape. should work well. how is the commutator?
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2022, 12:58:04 »
Pinder,
actually looks good,   sorry that the picture is kind of dark
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

Pinder

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NJ, Edison
  • Posts: 1031
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2022, 17:30:04 »
looks very good. The new brushes should work well
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4634
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2022, 23:31:56 »
brushes are worn (picture)
I don't know much about electric motors. Where are the brushes in the picture, and how does one know if they're worn?

I'll probably be doing this rebuild in the spring.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2022, 00:15:44 »
picture of the brushes up in the 13th post in this thread?  they are in the base.

the old ones got some wear,  good think new ones come in the kit!

these videos and the one above are helpful
How to rebuild a Bosch Short Fuel Pump MERCEDES W108 W111 W113 0442201002 A 0010915201
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PkC8WQd3_H4&feature=youtu.be
Rebuilding An Old Mercedes “Short” Fuel Pump
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcO3I3GQBg
1963 to 1972 Mercedes FID Short Electric Fuel Pump Repair Options
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yI7T3WVpfk8&feature=youtu.be
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

Pinder

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NJ, Edison
  • Posts: 1031
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2022, 16:34:46 »
The brushes are designed to wear down like break pads. I think when they have almost worn down to about 3mm it would be best to change. If the pump is opened up and new ones come in the kit its wise to change them out.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4634
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2022, 03:47:28 »
12th post, the filename of the pic literally says "brushes", but I see nothing with bristles. Just some springs, clips, and blocks with a curved end.  I'll watch the videos and try to learn something.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4634
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2022, 03:54:39 »
OK, so "brushes" aren't actually brushes, they're blocks.  Does that come from some terrible naming by someone 150 years ago?  Were they actually metal bristles 150 years ago and the name didn't change with newer technology?
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

BobH

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • United Kingdom, England, MALDON
  • Posts: 964
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2022, 09:22:27 »
That's correct, the original brushes were copper bristles, which over time developed into carbon or carbon compounds.  When they wear down, or the springs weaken, or they get stuck in their runners, this can cause arcing and burn the commutator, so best to replace while you have the pump apart, and make sure they are free in the runners.  Check the commutator for any burns or flat spots before reassembly
February 1965 230SL Automatic
UK delivered RHD
Papyrus white, blue hard top & hub caps
Blue soft top
Blue leather

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2022, 13:11:36 »
hello
some pictures for clarity
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2022, 21:25:55 »
well, pump re seal is complete and good timing as the brushes were very worn (picture)

some tips
1, the brushes are removed by pushing them toward the center, if you try to push outward they cant clear the holder (picture)
2. be sure to lube everything when re installing,   o rings,  where the o rings sit and the contact surfaces where other parts mate.
the fit with new o rings is very tight.
3, when re installing the brush springs, i found that it was easier to spread the 2 legs apart and using a needle nose pliers to grab the entire spring between the legs would hold the legs open.  then carefully inserting the spring where it sits on the holder, the long part is far enough over to engage the brush and then sort of push the whole thing down. then you an use various tools to grab the short leg and pull it over to where it locks in the holder.
4. removing the terminals was not that bad as they are 2 parts, so its easy once unsoldered and unscrewed to remove one side at a time.  you are able to spin and rotate as needed to get the wires out so you can r/r the o rings.

lastly i would watch the vintage euro video, do a step, watch the next step, do that step and so on.  its actually straight forward.

hope this helps !
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1370
Re: fuel pump leaking
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2022, 22:10:07 »
pump installed, no leaks!

took the car for a drive today,  nice to be back on the road

I may buy an extra kit to have it in the future.
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230