Author Topic: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?  (Read 2731 times)

lurtch

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, CA, Santa Rosa
  • Posts: 374
  • " ICON 66 "
Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« on: February 03, 2023, 23:27:03 »
Hello All - -

       I am guessing this is being caused by improper atomization at the injector nozzle on those two cylinders. The engine is healthy and powerful when up to temperature, but the startup and warmup period involves a lot of misses and snorts. This photo also seems to indicate that the WRD is leaning out just as it should.

  Anybody want to weigh in on this?   Also polling for  - - - how many of us had had partially plugged injectors in the past?

Larry in CA
Larry Hemstreet  in  N. Cal.

1966  230SL  (restored) Met. Anthracite w/ Maroon leather
1981  300TD-T (Concours condition, 86K, GETRAG 5sp.)
1982  300TD-T (parted out)
1986  560SEC (totaled)
1991  300TE (gifted)
1998  E320 (sold)
2004  E320 wagon (gifted)
2008  CLK550 Cabriolet

teahead

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, WA, Des Moines
  • Posts: 781
  • aka "Rob"
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2023, 00:11:44 »
Ya, #3 and #6 looks lean???

1970 280SL auto, AC - aka "Edelweiss"

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7219
  • Benz Dr.
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2023, 02:15:11 »
The two darker plugs seem to be too rich and the others are too lean. How long ( miles) have you been running those plugs?
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

lurtch

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, CA, Santa Rosa
  • Posts: 374
  • " ICON 66 "
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2023, 02:20:32 »
Hi Dan

I've got about 4K mile on them. They are NGK mid-heat range. The OEM Bosch plugs were more troublesome that these are.

Larry
Larry Hemstreet  in  N. Cal.

1966  230SL  (restored) Met. Anthracite w/ Maroon leather
1981  300TD-T (Concours condition, 86K, GETRAG 5sp.)
1982  300TD-T (parted out)
1986  560SEC (totaled)
1991  300TE (gifted)
1998  E320 (sold)
2004  E320 wagon (gifted)
2008  CLK550 Cabriolet

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7219
  • Benz Dr.
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2023, 03:04:27 »
Mid heat range doesn't tell me what you used. I used to install BP5ES which is a fairly hot non resistor plug. I can't get easy local supply any more so we are now using Auto Light 64.

4K miles and that bone white is too lean or running right on the edge of too lean. I like to see a bit more tan on the insulator.

Look on the ground electrode for the heat line. It should be right around the curve on the electrode if you have timing, heat range and mixture set right. For sure timing will show up as a moving line when adjustments are made.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Pinder

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NJ, Edison
  • Posts: 1031
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2023, 15:18:57 »
Just wondering what would cause this kind of variation. Is it the Injectors or is the fuel injection pump delivering different amounts of fuel?
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4619
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2023, 06:06:49 »
Is fuel variation the only possibility?  What about oil getting into the cylinders with the "rich" condition? Or, maybe coolant getting into the cylinders with the "lean" condition?
I don't know, just asking.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7031
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2023, 15:22:55 »
…I am guessing this is being caused by improper atomization at the injector nozzle…how many of us had had partially plugged injectors in the past…

Larry, at the last east coast event, hosted by Tom Sargeant in Charlottesville, Virginia, and the PUB before that in Blacklick, Jim Villers brought his injection pump tester. Since it is relatively quick and easy to remove the injection nozzles, lots of attendees with similar issues to yours and other runnability issues tested their nozzles. A good number of those with poor spray patterns were fixed by the tester.

The tester isn’t too difficult to build.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4619
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2023, 00:04:09 »
A good number of those with poor spray patterns were fixed by the tester.
How does the tester fix the injectors?
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

Vander

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, OH, Columbus
  • Posts: 384
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2023, 01:19:09 »
How does the tester fix the injectors?

It cleans them, and if there is a blockage or clog the pressure can blow it out.
1969 280SL

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4619
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2023, 06:22:11 »
So, it's just higher pressure than the FI pump normally uses.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7031
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2023, 12:11:05 »
So, it's just higher pressure than the FI pump normally uses.

https://youtu.be/nmkiBz65Wjs

In concert with this you can clean the injectors in an ultrasonic bath…

And, BTW--once you have a confirmable "clean" and properly operating set of injectors, doesn't hurt to use Techron additive once or twice a year. I always did this prior to a long trip (usually to one of the PUBs) so that I'd burn the full tank of gas with the Techron in it all in one fell swoop. I used to buy the Techron at Costco in a 6-pak. Don't know if they still have it or not.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 15:51:58 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

yves

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • France, Poitou-Charentes
  • Posts: 364
  • Happy owner of a 69/ 280 sl , 63 Etype ,55 XK 140
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2023, 16:09:14 »
Last year i used the mercedesource kit for injectors with succes . Diagnostic was obvious seeing the spray .
After around 20 pressures , the spray recovered a nice shape and a good spray noise too.
Now i should be confident with my injectors for some years ....i hope so !
BTW : the kit is available , let me know if ?
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

Kevkeller

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, HI, Honolulu
  • Posts: 388
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2023, 13:33:14 »
Think we had this discussion before but even many brand new injectors have bad spray patterns from the start. I’ve run into that problem myself.
There’s more than one type of injector. Why and what’s the difference I don’t know.
1970 280 SL

teahead

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, WA, Des Moines
  • Posts: 781
  • aka "Rob"
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2023, 16:37:29 »
1970 280SL auto, AC - aka "Edelweiss"

Lorsar

  • Membership Administrator
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, NC, Charlotte
  • Posts: 263
  • 1968 280SL (US)
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2023, 16:40:57 »
Teahead, have you asked if they do mfi injectors because most of these companies only do newer electronic fuel injectors.  I have asked around to several companies in my area with no luck.
Lori
1968 280SL (US)

dirkbalter

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Corona
  • Posts: 1469
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2023, 16:49:18 »
Teahead, have you asked if they do mfi injectors because most of these companies only do newer electronic fuel injectors.  I have asked around to several companies in my area with no luck.

You should ask the known pump rebuilders. They usually offer to test / clean you injectors.
Dirk
66 230 SL
70 280 SEL
53 CHEVY 3100
18 C300 COUPE
05 HD FLSTNI

Lorsar

  • Membership Administrator
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, NC, Charlotte
  • Posts: 263
  • 1968 280SL (US)
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2023, 17:14:10 »
oh yeah, I know there are some on the supplier list.  At the time (about a year and a half ago) I was looking for something quicker. I ended up buying cleaned and tested used ones from ebay for $60 apiece at the time.
Lori
1968 280SL (US)

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7219
  • Benz Dr.
Re: Whats going on with my sparkplugs?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2023, 22:50:27 »
Think we had this discussion before but even many brand new injectors have bad spray patterns from the start. I’ve run into that problem myself.
There’s more than one type of injector. Why and what’s the difference I don’t know.

There are two types as you've noted.

R1  are used on 230SL and they have a very defined cone pattern. The preferred part if you can find good ones. It's what I have in my car.
R2 are the current edition. Different spray pattern, not bad and they will do the job. 

1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC