’64 230SL, strange serial #

[jpalvima]

Hi all!

Probably this topic has already been lifted earlier but….we have a ’64 230SL imported from CA in 1989. Clear title, 1st owner etc. Customs fees , duties etc were paid to FIN in early 1990 but it was not reg’d here at all…just stored to a private car collection.
When preparing the SL for actual registration three decades later….we paid attention on serial number. CA reg docs and export / import papers use VIN ”230SL12793112xxxxx”
This VIN is bit confusing as clearly its made up in US back in ’64. Factory stamped VIN is normal MB serial and can be found from rh side front subframe and serial plate on rh side firewall top, being 113.042-12-0xxxxx.
What is slightly problematic now, is that SL was imported by using its ’US’ VIN ( 230SL12793112…) and this number is in all papers….and we cannot find this number stamped anywhere in SL. For reg process its a must as you have to prove the true identity

Where should this ”230SL12793112xxxxx” be found? Chassis? frame? There are ways to start the reg process from scratch and state that all docs have been lost during 30 yrs but it is quite labor intensive way requiring witnesses, statements and signatures a lot

Thanks in advance, all data helps!

Janne P, Finland

[Charles 230SL]

hello Janne, that's the engine serial number. Look on the left side of the block - where the block meets the head you'll see the engine serial number (127.981-12-xxxxx) stamped on the block. This may help: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/EngineNumber.

[mdsalemi]

Janne,

Unfortunately, you will not find any official number stamped on anything on any of these cars that begins with the model. Unfortunately for you, that was something that was just made up in California many years ago and for whatever reason satisfied the registration requirements there at that time.

So there is nothing stamped on any of these cars that begins with 230 SL, 250 SL, or 280 SL. Those have nothing to do with the VIN and never did. You may need to just do some serious explanation to your registration folks in Finland and explain to them that those are the model numbers only.

[Mike Hughes]

Many states in the U.S. entered the motor number on state vehicle registration documents. This appears to be the case with your 230SL last registered in California. If I am reading the previous entries correctly, there also appears to be an easily committed clerical error in the motor number entered on your vehicle document: "981" was entered as "931."

I recall a thread on these forums a few years back about another Pagoda owner's California registration document with a similar vehicle identification number string consisting of 2xOSL followed by the engine number.

[jpalvima]

Thanks guys, I read abt this CA practice in 60s and I still wonder how its possible to
A) export a vehicle from US where VIN in papers and chassis do not match
B) import a vehicle to FIN and show it to customs officers w/o matching papers and frame number

as typically they say in customs that you try to do a fraud.

But every day something new learned, so we focus on using its orig identity as basis for registration and stop seeking the US VIN

It is true this is close to engine number, but it did not match its existing engine serial number either

[Charles 230SL]

..You may need to just do some serious explanation to your registration folks in Finland and explain to them that those are the model numbers only.

I agree with Michael. You may be able to show them the engine number on the block and explain to them that the first 6 digits (127.981) mean the engine is for a 230SL model.

[mdsalemi]

Thanks guys, I read abt this CA practice in 60s and I still wonder how its possible to
A) export a vehicle from US where VIN in papers and chassis do not match
B) import a vehicle to FIN and show it to customs officers w/o matching papers and frame number

as typically they say in customs that you try to do a fraud.

In some places, with some people, they assume that everything presented to them is fraud, and then they make it exceedingly difficult for non-fraudulent situations to follow the rules.

Back at the time when your car was new, the now-standard international vehicle identification numbering scheme did not exist. It only came to be in the early 1980s I believe. The explanation, accurate and in detail, is located here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number The important take away from this is that your car--our cars--DO NOT follow this plan. If your Finnish registration agents expect this to be the case, you need to set them straight; they are wrong, and it will never be this way for a car built more than 50 years ago.

If your car is mostly original, the accurate vehicle identification (regardless of what the California paperwork may say) can be found in a few places. First, there is the data tag, though for some reason a lot of these data tags have been removed or lost over the years. A data tag example is attached. That particular data tag is one found on the inside door jamb, front. I think on earlier cars, this data tag is in the engine bay on the firewall. There is also a small data tag with the actual VIN that is sticking out on the LH side of the front windscreen glass. Again, a lot of cars are missing this--but somehow after all these years and multiple window changes, my car still has the original. Lastly, there is another tag on the LH side inside the engine bay, the one with the paint codes on it.

Some of the VIN data is explained in the Tech Manual: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/VIN  However, Janne, as an associate not a full member, you cannot access the Tech Manual...one of the great benefits of membership is the Tech Manual!

[Mike Hughes]

I've been through titling and registration errors for older vehicles several of times myself, most recently with a 1960 MGA last year.

Essentially, your task going forward is to tie the vehicle paperwork you have to the vehicle you have in such a way that your local vehicle licensing authorities will see fit to grant you new paperwork.

My suggestion is to try to obtain a copy of the datacard for your vehicle from Mercedes-Benz.  Since your 230SL was originally a U.S. delivery vehicle, the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center in California may have the relevant data card.  The datacard will contain BOTH the vehicle chassis number as well as the engine number.  Other numbers will also be included, such as paint codes, and the body production number.

Once you have obtained the data card, you should discover that the engine number on your California document, on the engine itself, and the data card all match (except for the clerical error of an "8" being entered as a "3"). You should also discover that the chassis number on the frame rail, the data tag on the firewall between the hood latch and the data card all match.  Finally, you should discover that the paint codes and body production number on the metal plate screwed to the bracket in the engine compartment adjacent to the edge of the left fender will match the information found on the data card.  Additionally, if the original hood is still fitted, the last four digits of the body production number will be found stamped on the inside ledge of the hood near the left hand corner (raise the hood and look up on the underside edge at the left rear corner).

Hopefully all this corroborating information will help you convince your vehicle licensing authorities in Finland that your 230SL is indeed the same vehicle as identified in your California registration and subsequent vehicle importation paperwork and provide sufficient proof for them to issue documentation for the vehicle under its correct "113.042-12-0xxxxx" VIN.

[Jowe]

Welcome to the group, Janne.

Also, you will find the chassis number stamped on right frame side member, just beneath the intake throttle. See #2 here https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/VIN

[rwmastel]

Finally, you should discover that the paint codes and body production number on the metal plate screwed to the bracket in the engine compartment adjacent to the edge of the left fender will match the information found on the data card.  Additionally, if the original hood is still fitted, the last four digits of the body production number will be found stamped on the inside ledge of the hood near the left hand corner (raise the hood and look up on the underside edge at the left rear corner).

Isn't it also stamped on the underside rear lip of the hardtop, and under the trunk lid?  My car also has a number stamped on the plate supporting the transmission and there are numbers on the king pins(?) that are listed on the data card.

[Mike Hughes]

Correct, and also the under the lip of the soft top cover.  However, these other areas can be more difficult to access and view.  I was confining myself to discussion of identification numbers that would be easily shown to an official who might have to physically inspect the vehicle in order verify information and sign off on any modification/change entries into an official vehicle record.

[neelyrc]

I had two experiences with incorrect VIN numbers when registering cars in Alabama. I took my Pagoda to Illinois in 1975  and they titled it there with one digit left out of the correct VIN.  Fortunately, when I brought the car back to Alabama a few years ago, they did a physical verification and applied the correct VIN in the new registration.

More recently, when I went to register my W108 here, I presented the data card and the bill of sale including the correct VIN.  The car was registered by the prior owner here in Alabama but the registrar could not find the car in the computer system.  I happened to have a copy of the prior owners registration in my file and I found that he had registered the car using the VIN from the California title of the original owner from 1972.  I also had a copy of the original California title.  This was an “invented VIN”. -  280SEL004886.  The last six digits match the last six digits of the actual VIN.  Again, the license office did a physical check of the VIN on the car and I was able to register the car with the actual VIN. 

[Mike Hughes]

It is true this is close to engine number, but it did not match its existing engine serial number either

In review I just noticed this statement.  Are you saying that the engine number appearing on your California documents is not the same as the engine number of the engine now installed in the car?

One of the reasons that states that originally registered vehicles by engine number eventually abandoned that practice is that engines on older cars do get replaced.   All the more reason to obtain the data card, which will undoubtedly confirm the original engine number, but also verify the chassis number.

[jpalvima]

Hi Mike! Yes ,this was the case so engine serial was same format as the CA VIN....but it was not the same.
I agree that as these are old cars, engine may have been replaced at some point ( when looking under valve cover, at least cyl head looked like a brand new...)

[rwmastel]

Janne,

Here is what the engine ID plate looks like.  It is on the engine block (not the head), just below spark plug #5, #6 (you can see spark plugs in the pic).  You can see, even on a clean engine it would be hard to find and read.