Seeking help to find original US dealer & owner of our 1965 230SL

[JohnPia]

Hi Pagoda SL Group,
We have recently purchased a LHD Pagoda, it’s a 1965 230SL delivered into US. Order # is 57053141.
Can you help me to identify the dealership where the Pagoda was ordered & delivered, as I’d like to contact them to try to find the original owner.
Regards,
John Anibaldi

[BobH]

Hello John, you can find the list of country codes in the technical manual, above left, just search "dealer and country codes" when you're on the main menu page.  If you haven't already found it, there is also an explanation of data cards, search, strangely enough "data cards"

Finding a list of dealer codes from the period seems to be difficult, and even if you do trace the dealer, if they still exist, in this age of data protection, they may be reluctant to provide  previous owner information

As i understand it your order number deciphers as 5 - denotes the date of 65, 705 is the country/region code - 703 - 706 USA, Puerto Rico, Guam, USVI, American Samoa etc. (703 was used only briefly) and the last four digits is the actual dealer

If you also search" previous owners", or "dealer codes", using the search function above, you'll find many similar posts as yours, so you may get some more tips there

Good luck

[Jack the Knife]

My car came with a dealer directory from 1965, so if you can narrow down the state, I might be of assistance. No codes, sadly. For other's benefit, I have tried to glean some reasoning or system behind what informs the dealer code specifically but I've come up dry. Anyway, since your car is a '65, it is possible MBNA has some information on where it was sold originally. I would send them an email.

[DavidAPease]

the last four digits is the actual dealer

According to our Technical Manual: "The next four digits are sequential by dealer/region/country and year."

So digits 2-4 are what is referred to above as "dealer/region/country" (705 in this case), and the last four digits are a sequential order number within that region.  Except for Germany, where the dealer/region/country code actually identifies a city (and therefore possibly a dealer), there is no dealer number in the order number.

If the last four digits were actually a dealer number, then any order from that dealer in the same year would have the same order number.  Instead, the order number is uniquely identified by year, region, and sequential number.

         -David

[BobH]

I stand corrected, David's correct i misunderstood the technical manual, there's much written about the subject on this posts, seems it's a common mistake.  Looks like the actual dealer isn't identified anywhere on the data card, just the original sales receipt

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=29667.25

[Cees Klumper]

Someone who would have bought a Pagoda new in 1965 would likely be at least 83 years old by now, if not much older (assuming it would have been difficult for anyone under 25 to have bought such a relatively expensive car then, as it is today). So, I would venture a guess that, today, at least 90% of our cars' original owners have passed on and so the difficult journey to try and find one is most likely going to be fruitless. Still, I suppose it could be interesting to know just a name and perhaps city of residence of the original owner.

[mdsalemi]

Hi Pagoda SL Group,
We have recently purchased a LHD Pagoda, it’s a 1965 230SL delivered into US. Order # is 57053141.
Can you help me to identify the dealership where the Pagoda was ordered & delivered, as I’d like to contact them to try to find the original owner.
Regards,
John Anibaldi

John, I don't think that what you would like to do is possible. There are an awful lot of things conspiring against this. Dealerships come and go, and dealership management comes and goes. Even if you were to find the actual selling dealer, and that dealer was still in business, it is unlikely that any of the same people would be working at the dealership 58 years later--or even owned by the same people/family/company.

Then, as Cees mentioned, there is the age of the original owner. They would be at minimum 83, and more likely 98 if they were alive at all. About the best you would be able to do is the children or grandchildren of the original owner, if you knew their name.

If you were lucky you might find some original paperwork that would provide a clue. If that wasn't with the car, I'm afraid your task would be near impossible.

[Norm]

My car came with the original owner's manual with the owner's name and address filled in.  Also includes a Service Booklet with all of the service provided at the original delivering dealer by date and mileage.  My car was a German delivery and the delivery date, country and city are included on the Mercedes Certificate I ordered through the Classic Center.

I don't know if Mercedes still offer the Certificate in addition to the data cards through the Classic Center but it is fun to have.

Norm

[49er]

Someone who would have bought a Pagoda new in 1965 would likely be at least 83 years old by now, if not much older (assuming it would have been difficult for anyone under 25 to have bought such a relatively expensive car then, as it is today). So, I would venture a guess that, today, at least 90% of our cars' original owners have passed on...

I was 22 when I bought my '67 250SL and I had just turned 24 when I traded it in for my 280SL. They were a lot of money for a Junior Draftsman working at North American Aviation but it sure turned out to be money well spent. I am happy to be in that 10% of original owners and god willing, plan on many more years of driving my SL

John

[DavidAPease]

My car came with the plate shown in the photo on the firewall.  I also know it was French because of the yellow headlight bulbs and the amber reversing lights on it when I bought it (which I still have).  This dealer appears to have been the Mercedes distributor for all of France.

I looked up the address of the dealer, and while the name has changed, there is still a Mercedes dealer at that address.  I suspect the dealership has changed hands, but it could be in the same family (or at least still have the records of the earlier owners). 

However, due to the unlikelihood of actually getting any information from such an inquiry, I have not contacted them to see what I could learn about the original purchaser.

           -David

[mdsalemi]

David,

I remember your car when you boldly drove it from CA to OH (and back!) for a PUB years ago!

Doesn’t your Livraison en français Pagoda, aside from yellow lights, also have some engine-bay device that shuts things off if your car turns upside down? Is this standard issue French on all cars of the era?

[DavidAPease]

Hi, Michael,

Yes, and I remember well our visit to Joe's friend Paul Hackman's warehouse to look for wiper arms and other miscellanea.    A fun time overall.

The thread below starts with a photo of the device, along with the conclusion that all cars of the era delivered in France (Triumph, Citroen, Jaguar, etc) required this type of "inertia switch" to disable the electrical system in the case of a collision or roll-over.

   https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=32842.msg239152#msg239152

I have left the device (unconnected) in the engine compartment to fill the empty void it would leave if removed.   

           -David

[JohnPia]

thanks BobH will do.

[JohnPia]

yes, just details of 1st owner would be nice. cheers

[JohnPia]

thanks David

[JohnPia]

thanks for the feedback Michael. cheers

[JohnPia]

Thanks JTK,

I've emailed the decoded data card to both MBUSA & the Classic Center, so perhaps they may help with at least the delivery state...and hopefully the dealer info as well, would be nice!

cheers
John A

[JohnPia]

Thanks JTK,

I've emailed the decoded data card to both MBUSA & the Classic Center, so perhaps they may help with at least the delivery state...and hopefully the dealer info as well, would be nice!

cheers
John A

[Pinder]

a Long shot but have you looked under seats  and behind parcel shelf for any old receipts ? may give a clue of where the car was. In my case I found a bunch of old coins from the 60s and 70s and one letter with an address.

[Cees Klumper]

I had the same in my '72 Lancia - in a nook behind the dashboard I unearthed two business cards from Oslo (one from a Lancia dealer sales agent, and one from a garage specializing in Italian cars), an Italian coin, and a series of hairpins ... I found the Lancia sales agent (since retired) but he did not respond to my Facebook message.

[JohnPia]

a Long shot but have you looked under seats  and behind parcel shelf for any old receipts ? may give a clue of where the car was. In my case I found a bunch of old coins from the 60s and 70s and one letter with an address.

thanks Pinder, will give that a go!

[Mike Hughes]

a Long shot but have you looked under seats  and behind parcel shelf for any old receipts ? may give a clue of where the car was. In my case I found a bunch of old coins from the 60s and 70s and one letter with an address.

When disassembling the doors of my '34 M.G. L-1 Magna Salonette I found in a crevice behind the map pocket an old tax disc from 1938 and a 1939 London parking ticket on which was penciled, "Please no overnight standing in the mews."

[MikeSimon]

Surprising. Almost all Pagodas that I have seen for sale have remnants of original documents, e.g.: owners- or service manual with them and location of first service is in most cases the delivering dealer. Sometimes owners don't even look through all the stuff they have and are surprised to find a data card stapled in the service manual.

[lowpad]

David,

As you know, I have a similar French-market 230SL (complete with the same French lighting that you have as well as the lubrication plaque that you have). I have tried multiple times to get information from Mercedes France about any information on original deliveries through Delacroix, so far without success. But I am in Paris in May and will try again!

Lowell