Author Topic: Machine shop recommendations  (Read 2339 times)

Diggerjames

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Machine shop recommendations
« on: August 29, 2023, 16:53:57 »
I need some recommendations for a 1968 280sl cylinder head repair machine shop. It's warped and has spark erosion but repairable.I'm in the Kansas City Missouri area. Thanks in advance everyone, James

Benz Dr.

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2023, 17:16:55 »
First thing to do is to measure the thickness of your cylinder head. Stock is around 85mm and they can be machined down to 84mm. If it's close to 84mm, it might not be worth fixing. Warped heads can be straightened which should be done before any machining is done. If may require machining on the upper surface of the head so that the cam can turn freely. Cam shims under the cam bearings can be used to get rocker geometry back into spec.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

mdsalemi

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2023, 19:01:04 »
I need some recommendations for a 1968 280sl cylinder head repair machine shop. It's warped and has spark erosion but repairable.I'm in the Kansas City Missouri area. Thanks in advance everyone, James

While Dan offered some of the "what" and "how", taking precise machinist's measurements without the proper tools (your wooden grade school metric ruler probably won't work well) and experience may be fruitless.

If you think it may be worth saving, contact Mike Elias at Metric Motors in California. If it can be salvaged I'm sure they can do it. If you speak with him, and he says send me the head, and he can fix it after seeing it, you've got it in the best hands. If he says it's not repairable, you've had THE expert opinion and he saved you a lot of time inquiring from other places.

Metric Motors gets high marks around here from a lot of people.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Benz Dr.

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2023, 19:17:31 »
Not that I disagree with your findings about Metrics, but why is it that all 10 of your fingers ALWAYS point in their direction? Surely there must be other machine shops around NA that can do just as well?

I used to buy a lot of parts from them until they quit selling to the general public, which I didn't think meant " me " but that's their policy. And, although I hold no animus towards them, neither do I feel the need to shill for them. They are just one of many good machine shops dedicated to MB work.

 
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

George3

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2023, 21:03:33 »
I agree with Benz Dr. I've heard only good things about metric motors, but that said, a competent  machinist experienced with Mercedes would be able to evaluate your cylinder head. Then you can decide on cost for repair or replacement. Either way there's removal and installation to be carried out.

dirkbalter

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2023, 21:25:28 »
I think he is looking for the recommendation of a shop in the Kansas City area. I think being able to deliver, pick up the part and talk to the people face to face will simplify the repair a lot.   

But, if a shop can not be found in the area and the head has to be send somewhere, I can also recommend Metric. All they do is Mercedes engines. And again, that's all they do. They did my engine and I experienced first hand their knowledge, attention to detail   and friendly, helpful service.

BTW, welcome to the group.
 
Dirk
66 230 SL
70 280 SEL
53 CHEVY 3100
18 C300 COUPE
05 HD FLSTNI

mdsalemi

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2023, 00:05:57 »
Not that I disagree with your findings about Metrics, but why is it that all 10 of your fingers ALWAYS point in their direction?
 

…because they do ONE thing (Mercedes-Benz motors) and do it exceedingly well—and they’ve been doing it for a very long time.

There was a place in Florida called Noel’s but they seem to have wound down their operations. They too did one thing…long after they stopped advertising and appeared closed I called and spoke with Noel. He said yes they are still in business, but haven’t heard any customer experience reports. Anyone?

There appears to be a number of specialists in UK but not being there I wouldn’t know. I’m guessing there’s more than one in Germany too, but…nobody’s talking.

Personally I’d rather just go to an acknowledged expert where there’s no question that they are experienced and the results will be known in advance. But that’s me.

Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

MikeSimon

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2023, 13:15:08 »
Cylinder heads are not rocket science. Whether they are from Mercedes Benz or not. There are plenty of knowledgeable and experienced engine machine and repair shops in the U.S. I had a couple of heads machined, including erosion repairs and valve seats cut by a local engine builder who works especially on hot-rods. All he needed was specs and dimensions required and they turned out A1. Sure, Metric Motors are the marque experts, but they are also extremely pricey. General motor repairs, like head cutting, cylinder boring or crank refinishing can be done by any good motor shop. I am a tad far away from Kansas City and I am sure there are places there.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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mdsalemi

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2023, 14:25:53 »
Cylinder heads are not rocket science...plenty of knowledgeable and experienced engine machine and repair shops...all he needed was specs and dimensions...General motor repairs, like head cutting, cylinder boring or crank refinishing can be done by any good motor shop...Metric Motors...extremely pricey. 

I would not agree with "extremely pricey". Good work is never cheap, but there are far too many people today, in far too many fields expecting far too much work for far too little money. All the expertise on a Mercedes ANYTHING comes with a price. I see this all the time in my corner of North Carolina, where people are looking for a "reasonable" plumber, or a "reasonable" electrician or a "reasonable" mechanic because with all the limited inquiries they've made they don't like the prices; they are "unreasonable"; then last week, someone locally here in my area was looking for a "cheap dentist", two words (am I right, @John Mancini?) I don't ever want to see in the same sentence. Skill and expertise are not going to be cheap.

Yes, if a local Kansas City machine shop has the right tools, and all the correct specifications, surely they can determine if the head can be repaired, and probably repair it. What exactly are the "correct specifications"? Are they the same for all cylinder heads on all M127-M130 engines? Would it be any cheaper than Metric or Noel's or, if in the UK or Germany, the places there? What if parts are needed and this local machine shop has no clue as to where to find these parts? There are literally hundreds of suppliers of all engine parts for American cars, even Porsche has many suppliers. May be a little more challenging for someone not familiar with a 60+ year old Mercedes. I surely don't know the answers to those questions and that's why I would pay for the expertise and experience. Most MB dealers would farm out this work since they don't have in house machine shops. (fewer and fewer have in house body shops either!) Maybe a call to the local dealer's service departments may glean some information on the possible machine shops in the area worth calling. Just tell them its for a very old car they wouldn't service and ask for any recommendations. This is true if you are in Kansas City, Kalamazoo or Kenosha.

We here are a limited subset of "older Mercedes owners" and aside from dealer inquiries as noted above, it may be a worthwhile effort if @Diggerjames made contact with the local MBCA chapter for KC, and started asking questions there; contact the officers by phone. It's a larger set of people with older cars who may have utilized local services. (Note: though I have not been an officer of the Michigan MBCA chapter in some years, I got a call YESTERDAY from someone in Michigan seeking information on rebuilding a Bosch electronic module for fuel injection!) There also may be members of the 190SL Group or the Gull Wing Group, in the KC area, that expand the pool of possible old Mercedes owners who may have a line on localized services. The calls certainly cannot hurt.

In our group, BTW, in a quick search, we have ONE associate member with no posts in KC, Kansas. We have none in KC, MO. Going "outstate" in both KS and MO, we do have 12 members in MO, 6 of them full. We have 5 members in MO, 2 of them full. Few of them are active thus postings probably won't be seen. So our group by itself isn't going to be a great place to conclude your search. The MBCA also has at least one Technical Advisor that may specifically direct you to people to talk to in the general area. Worth a shot if you are a member of the MBCA. If not you may have challenges.

I think the bottom line is if you talk to enough "Mercedes people" in the area, club members, dealers, etc. you may find one or more local machine shops that you can call and at least talk to. Hopefully one of them will give you the confidence to entrust your head to. If not, you can always send it out.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Benz Dr.

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2023, 17:16:48 »
I guess 45 years of working on only MB cars wouldn't qualify myself or Joe A. as experts (lol )   :).

I imagine Joe is busy, I know we are after our expansion, so there's a line up forming.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

dirkbalter

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2023, 17:27:44 »
I guess 45 years of working on only MB cars wouldn't qualify myself or Joe A. as experts (lol )   :).

I imagine Joe is busy, I know we are after our expansion, so there's a line up forming.

I have the highest respect for the knowledge and help you guys bring to the forum. But I have to ask, do you actually have the required equipment necessary to bore / hone / grind / mill the blocks / heads /cranks... ?
Dirk
66 230 SL
70 280 SEL
53 CHEVY 3100
18 C300 COUPE
05 HD FLSTNI

rwmastel

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2023, 18:21:10 »
Diggerjames,

Thanks for joining our Pagoda Group!  Sorry that this thread got side tracked quickly.  It can happen around here.   >:(

I have a cousin in KC who has a new Fiat 124 Abarth Spider and her husband has an old (1978?) Fiat 124 Spider.  I'll see if they have any leads.  (They helped evaluate the 2017 C43 AMG that I bought out of KC last year.)

Here's some google results:
https://www.google.com/search?q=automotive+machine+shop+near+kansas+city+mo&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS953US953&oq=automotive+machine+shop+near+kansas+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBECEYoAEyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRirAjIKCAYQIRgWGB0YHtIBCDk4NDFqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#cobssid=s
« Last Edit: August 30, 2023, 18:28:52 by rwmastel »
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2023, 18:24:17 »
I have the highest respect for the knowledge and help you guys bring to the forum. But I have to ask, do you actually have the required equipment necessary to bore / hone / grind / mill the blocks / heads /cranks... ?

No, I'm not a machine shop - lots of shops farm out specialty work. I do, however, know how it's supposed to be done and work with my machinist and welder to repair cylinder heads.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

dirkbalter

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2023, 19:08:00 »
No, I'm not a machine shop - lots of shops farm out specialty work. I do, however, know how it's supposed to be done and work with my machinist and welder to repair cylinder heads.

Agreed and referring to his initial post, he is looking for a machine shop. And even though most machine shops are or should be familiar with the concept, I can see the benefit of a shop that is particularly familiar with these alum (Mercedes) heads.   
Dirk
66 230 SL
70 280 SEL
53 CHEVY 3100
18 C300 COUPE
05 HD FLSTNI

rwmastel

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2023, 19:14:00 »
Diggerjames,

Thanks for joining our Pagoda Group!  Sorry that this thread got side tracked quickly.  It can happen around here.   >:(

I have a cousin in KC who has a new Fiat 124 Abarth Spider and her husband has an old (1978?) Fiat 124 Spider.  I'll see if they have any leads.  (They helped evaluate the 2017 C43 AMG that I bought out of KC last year.)
Diggerjames,

That was quick!!  My cousin says you should go to 515 Motorsport (https://www.515motorsport.com/) and tell Cameron that Donovan D. with the Fiat 124 sent you.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

wstansfield

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2023, 22:24:17 »
I’m a new 280 SL owner and looking for a good independent repair and service shop in the Philadelphia area. Westchester Pennsylvania would be the ideal.

rwmastel

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Re: Machine shop recommendations
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2023, 05:25:41 »
You should start your own Philly thread.  Much easier for the right people to find your query.
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"